What is an "evil person"

[scorpia]

Or a specific type of non-believer, if you don't mind me.

So question is as the title suggests, what in your view, is an evil person? Or, if you "don't believe in evil", what kind of person would you deem, say untrustworthy?

[scorpia]

Yes, evil is not what other people are. We all have the capacity for evil. Some of us in small ways others in larger ways. It is only a matter of degree.

Ah.

So certain actions I believe can define a life, and from which the perpetrator can never escape their personal responsibility. Unless of course they are a sociopath.

And while they're facing that responsibility and acting on that would others forgive them?

[Furrowed Brow]

Yes, evil is not what other people are. We all have the capacity for evil. Some of us in small ways others in larger ways. It is only a matter of degree.

Ah.

So certain actions I believe can define a life, and from which the perpetrator can never escape their personal responsibility. Unless of course they are a sociopath.

And while they're facing that responsibility and acting on that would others forgive them?

You have to look to your own conscience. If I was the father of that young Russian soldier I could never forgive those rebels for what they did. Even if those Chechnyan rebels then went on to find the cure for cancer, feed starving children in Africa and plead for forgiveness. Nope. No way. The horror they perpertrated can't be undone.

[Greatest I Am]

Jesus may have given us the answer in treat other as you would want others to treat you.
Any that do not then would be considered evil.

I can think of no situation that would contradict this.

Can it be as simple as this one phrase? I think it may be. You?

Regards
DL

[scorpia]

Jesus may have given us the answer in treat other as you would want others to treat you.
Any that do not then would be considered evil.

I can think of no situation that would contradict this.

There is an argument; considering masochists, who want to be harmed, perhaps because of this they would see no problem in harming others.

I find this argument unsatifactory though since masochists are the way they are because of guilt or fear of harming others.

However here is another example; Japanese during some war beheaded many of their prisoners. Why? They thought they were doing their prisoners a favour, since they themselves would rather die than be held captive, which to them is a dishonour.

And I suppose someone else would have kept a Japanese (or similair) prisoner alive thinking he or she was being kind when in fact the prisoner would have rather died.

You have to look to your own conscience. If I was the father of that young Russian soldier I could never forgive those rebels for what they did. Even if those Chechnyan rebels then went on to find the cure for cancer, feed starving children in Africa and plead for forgiveness. Nope. No way. The horror they perpertrated can't be undone

And what, if say, you were in the Chechnyan's position? After trying to make up for it?

[Confused]

Jesus may have given us the answer in treat other as you would want others to treat you.
Any that do not then would be considered evil.

I can think of no situation that would contradict this.

Can it be as simple as this one phrase? I think it may be. You?

Regards
DL

Ok, say Mr X wants to be treated like a slave, dominated by a female. Is it ok for Mr X to treat Mr Y the same way, even if Mr. Y doesn't want to be dominated?

[Furrowed Brow]

And what, if say, you were in the Chechnyan's position? After trying to make up for it?

If I had really addressed what I had done I would not forgive myself. So I would not expect anyone else to forgive me either. For certain deeds talk of forgiveness is inane.

Recently whilst on holiday in Greece a British tourist in a fit of despair after arguing with his wife threw his children off the top of a hotel roof then jumped. He survived but the children died. I'm sorry but there is no where to go after that. There is no emotional band aid for that one. And trying to applying one is I think obscene.

This guy sounds like he had problems. So I'd not call him evil. I can understand that maybe he was depressed, or suffering a psychological problem. Maybe he had schizophrenic tendencies. I can accept it can be argued he had diminished responsibility. But if it had been me, then each breath I took from that day on would be near impossible to swallow. If I could breathe without emotional pain then I'd have relinquished what little claim I had left for being the father of those children. To provide me with medication, therapy or whatever to help me feel better about myself, or see what I did in terms of my diminished responsibility would be emotionally hollow, and a kind of madness. Self loathing can be the only sane response. Anyone trying to talk or medicate me out of that self loathing would be as shallow as a puddle after a light rain.

The present zeitgeist seems to be one of "resolution", i.e. problems can be resolved, understood, and forgiven. Some times they can. But not every time. And some things once done change the moral terrain.

[ST88]

And what, if say, you were in the Chechnyan's position? After trying to make up for it?

If I had really addressed what I had done I would not forgive myself. So I would not expect anyone else to forgive me either. For certain deeds talk of forgiveness is inane.

Hey Brow, what do you think of the blanket amnesty program as used by the South African government and often proposed for the Iraqi insurrectionists?

I would argue that in that case certain evil actions were forgiven by an entire nation and were therefore absolved.

[Furrowed Brow]

And what, if say, you were in the Chechnyan's position? After trying to make up for it?

If I had really addressed what I had done I would not forgive myself. So I would not expect anyone else to forgive me either. For certain deeds talk of forgiveness is inane.

Hey Brow, what do you think of the blanket amnesty program as used by the South African government and often proposed for the Iraqi insurrectionists?

I would argue that in that case certain evil actions were forgiven by an entire nation and were therefore absolved.

Depends on the evil action. To calm a nation maybe some political compromise is needed. And if necessary some sweeping under the carpet.

But say I was the Russian father of that beheaded soldier and the Russian government gave an amnesty to his killer for political reasons, then I'd have to say I was no longer a Russian. Ok..true... I'm not a Russian, but if it was Britain then the same applies.

I suppose when I look at a case in point I ask myself could I forgive myself if I was the perpetrator. In the case of the father who killed his children or the Chechens who beheaded that young soldier, I'm pretty sure I could not; or if I could then I'd say I just had not addressed what I had done.

[scorpia]

If I had really addressed what I had done I would not forgive myself. So I would not expect anyone else to forgive me either. For certain deeds talk of forgiveness is inane.

But if you're beating up yourself over it is the really a need for others to go on about it either? You've learnt your lesson by then. You can put a gun to your head, but then that won't fix things.

Okay, so some guy died..... But once the killer pays, or at least tries to pay the father back, it makes it even and one should move on. It's like when someone saves your life, at least in my view, you'd try to save that person's life in return, and once you do, you're both even, and you don't owe each other anything.

[Furrowed Brow]

You've learnt your lesson by then. You can put a gun to your head, but then that won't fix things.

What lesson was learnt by the guy who threw his kids of the roof? What can he do to fix things?

Imagine after serving a prison sentence, and undergoing therapy a future point arrives that the guy can say "I took killing my kids really badly, but I have come to terms with what I did and I have learnt to forgive myself". Arrrgghh!!!

I agree that for most things we come across in life the sanguine approach you advocate is admirable. However... and maybe this is just me...there are some things for which it is inappropriate.