Condomnation

[jcrawford]

NEW YORK -- After Catholic leaders chastised city officials for a free condom program that they said was immoral, Mayor Michael Bloomberg on Friday defended the initiative as a "real world" tactic to combat HIV and AIDS.

"This is not an issue of faith, this is a health issue for the city," he said on his weekly radio show.

Cardinal Edward Egan, head of the Archdiocese of New York, and Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio of Brooklyn released a joint statement on Thursday that said City Hall leaders "fail to protect the moral tone of our community when they encourage inappropriate sexual activity by blanketing our neighborhoods with condoms."

"The taxpayer money that is being spent to distribute condoms and promote the attitude that anything goes would be far better spent in fostering what is true and what is decent," said the statement from Egan and DiMarzio.

Bloomberg said Egan and DiMarzio, who together serve more than 4 million Catholics, have the right to communicate to their followers what they feel is proper behavior. But, he added, the city is trying to find ways to reduce its rates of HIV and AIDS, and other sexually transmitted diseases.

"They should preach to their congregants what they think is the appropriate ways to live your lives, but the health department has to work with the real world of people not practicing protected sex, not practicing abstinence, and this is a ways to keep people alive."

http://www.newsday.com/.../condomcondemnatio0216feb16,0,449731.story

Questions for discussion and debate:

Is it proper behavior on the part of Bloomberg to work only with people not practicing protected sex and to tell the Catholic church and all other Christians to mind their own business, because he thinks he is saving lives while the church is only concerned with saved souls.

How does Bloomberg know who is not practicing protected sex in the first place and what business is it of his what consenting adults do in their bedrooms.

Isn't it time for this snooty little politician to get his big nose out of the public's private sex lives and to stop handing out condoms to Christian and Muslim schoolchildren on street corners and in public schools?

Have Bloomberg and his Health Commissioner Frieden, no morals or ethics at all but have become totally depraved and morally bankrupt while living in the "real world" of secular interests and unprotected sex?

Edited to shorten URL preventing extra wide page.

[Wyvern]

This all boils down to the old saying,"an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".

No one is curing anything by handing out condoms to teenagers. Rather are they encouraging teenage fornication without the parents consent.

Don't be thick, condoms are a preventive measure not a cure, hence the saying. Secondly considering the program primarily distributed condoms in subway stations it can not be said that teenagers were targeted. Thirdly whether you like it or not teenagers are going to have sex, it was true when you were a teen and it is true now. Fourthly what world do you live in where teens ask permission to have sex?

In other words as a taxpayer would you rather pay a few pennies for something which could potentially prevent someone getting an illness which can cost thousands of dollars a year just for the meds to keep the illness at bay, or would you rather these people get infected and then you get the honor of helping to pay for their treatment in the form of higher taxes and higher HMO fees.

If teenagers get sexual infections then their parents have to pay for the medication, or send the bill to Bloomberg, not to you or me, since we are not responsible for ecouraging teenagers to have sex, are we? At least I am not.

What, do you think Bloomberg goes into his personal savings to pay public bills? Do you think HMO's aren't in business to make a profit? When as you say the bill is sent to Bloomberg that means your taxes are paying for it. Unless you can come up with something bolstering your assertion as being true it can only be viewed as your personal views.

It's kinda hard to take the moral high ground when the taxpayers aren't willing to pay for it.

Taxpayers don't have pay for hare-brained sex schemes which anti-Christian secular mayors like Bloomberg dream up.

If you pay taxes you ARE helping pay for these programs. Would you rather pay four cents for a condom or thousands of dollars per year per person for anti-AIDS drugs.

This issue is no different than how many municipalities are now banning smoking in public and now even trans fats, it's all about trying to save money by trying to prevent disease instead of merely treating it.

Then ban teenage sex and fornication instead of encouraging it.

There are already laws on the books against having sex in public. Do you really want the government sticking its nose in your private life?

BTW why do you jump to the conclusion that this program targeted only muslim and christian schoolchildren?

It didn't and only the Roman Catholic Archiocese and a few Protestants like me complained.

Considering how many condoms have been distributed so far it seems you are in an extreme minority.

[palmera]

jcrawford,
You have repeatedly mentioned that handing out condoms encourages youth to have sex. Can you cite evidence that this is the case? There is a large and important difference between promoting safe sex and promoting sex. Handing out condoms is a necessary step in educating the public and in helping to prevent the spread of sexually transmitted diseases. The fact of the matter is that teens have sex regardless of creed, and that far too many of them have unprotected sex- which is due in large part because they aren't educated about the risks of sex and the preventative measures out there or how to get them.

The proposition that giving someone a condom is giving them a green light to be promiscuous is an inane argument that relies on emotional appeal while pandering to the ignorance of it's audience. Every credible study done on teen sexual activity and awareness argues for an 'abstinence plus' education that, rather than telling kids they're going to hell for having sex, actually teaches them useful knowledge about it so that when they do have sex, and they inevitably will, they will be informed and better able to handle the situation.

The mayor is right. The preachers have every right to preach what they will to their congregants regarding the nature of sex; but they are wrong to interfere in the efforts of the city to stop the spread of STD's (specifically AIDS and HIV in this case) through a tried and proven system of action and education. Furthermore, just as the preacher has the right to talk about sex to his congregants, so does the city's elected mayor. He's not being nosey, he's acting as a responsible leader should.

[Confused]

Can you show me where exactly in that article it explicitly says these condoms are only being given to teens? How do you know the majority if not all are going to consenting adults?

[jcrawford]

jcrawford,
You have repeatedly mentioned that handing out condoms encourages youth to have sex. Can you cite evidence that this is the case? There is a large and important difference between promoting safe sex and promoting sex. Handing out condoms is a necessary step in educating the public and in helping to prevent the spread of sexually transmitted diseases.

Giving condoms to public school students obviously approves of their indiscriminate usage by the mayor and reinforces the so-called right of teenage fornication and sex abuse.

The fact of the matter is that teens have sex regardless of creed, and that far too many of them have unprotected sex- which is due in large part because they aren't educated about the risks of sex and the preventative measures out there or how to get them.

Teenagers have sex because secular humanists like Bloomberg hand out condoms to them. Instead of giving school children condoms a Christian mayor would warn students, parents and teachers of the life-threatening and socially destructive consequences of having sex before marriage.

The proposition that giving someone a condom is giving them a green light to be promiscuous is an inane argument that relies on emotional appeal while pandering to the ignorance of it's audience.

No it is not, because only immoral and promiscuous fornicators need to use condoms. Christians, Muslims and Jews are commanded to marry, be faithful, fruitful and multiply.

Every credible study done on teen sexual activity and awareness argues for an 'abstinence plus' education that, rather than telling kids they're going to hell for having sex, actually teaches them useful knowledge about it so that when they do have sex, and they inevitably will, they will be informed and better able to handle the situation.

Sex ed for Jews, Muslims and Christians should be taught by Jews, Muslims and Christians. Otherwise they may teach secularists a few things about sex ed.

The mayor is right. The preachers have every right to preach what they will to their congregants regarding the nature of sex; but they are wrong to interfere in the efforts of the city to stop the spread of STD's (specifically AIDS and HIV in this case) through a tried and proven system of action and education.

It is immoral and religiously wrong for a secular Jewish mayor to hand out condoms to Roman Catholics and Protestants which have not been officially blessed by leaders of their respective churches. Besides, teenagers are not going to contract or infect others with deadly sex diseases if they are criminally charged and locked up for spreading them.

Furthermore, just as the preacher has the right to talk about sex to his congregants, so does the city's elected mayor. He's not being nosey, he's acting as a responsible leader should.

It is not kosher or halal for a Jewish mayor to be handing out condoms to Christian and Islamic students, even if he were to pay for them himself, which he wouldn't dare do. It is anti-Christian to approve of teenage drinking, smoking and fornication.

[Goat]

jcrawford,
You have repeatedly mentioned that handing out condoms encourages youth to have sex. Can you cite evidence that this is the case? There is a large and important difference between promoting safe sex and promoting sex. Handing out condoms is a necessary step in educating the public and in helping to prevent the spread of sexually transmitted diseases.

Giving condoms to public school students obviously approves of their indiscriminate usage by the mayor and reinforces the so-called right of teenage fornication and sex abuse.

Your repeating of your asserstion does not give any further evidence of your claim. Can you actually give evidence of this, rather than claim 'it is obvious'.
The fact that others argue about it makes is clear that it is NOT as obvious as you claim it is.

The fact of the matter is that teens have sex regardless of creed, and that far too many of them have unprotected sex- which is due in large part because they aren't educated about the risks of sex and the preventative measures out there or how to get them.

Teenagers have sex because secular humanists like Bloomberg hand out condoms to them. Instead of giving school children condoms a Christian mayor would warn students, parents and teachers of the life-threatening and socially destructive consequences of having sex before marriage.

The proposition that giving someone a condom is giving them a green light to be promiscuous is an inane argument that relies on emotional appeal while pandering to the ignorance of it's audience.

No it is not, because only immoral and promiscuous fornicators need to use condoms. Christians, Muslims and Jews are commanded to marry, be faithful, fruitful and multiply.

We have done that. Look at the numbers of people in the world. Now what. We are also commanded to be stewards of the earth, and too many people on the earth mean we are not being GOOD stewards of it.

Every credible study done on teen sexual activity and awareness argues for an 'abstinence plus' education that, rather than telling kids they're going to hell for having sex, actually teaches them useful knowledge about it so that when they do have sex, and they inevitably will, they will be informed and better able to handle the situation.

Sex ed for Jews, Muslims and Christians should be taught by Jews, Muslims and Christians. Otherwise they may teach secularists a few things about sex ed.

These people are going to public school. As such, they are secularists. I am sure you would rather have the children in ignornace, rather then they learn about such things as responsiblity, prevention of disease, and such terrible things like evolution and biology.

The mayor is right. The preachers have every right to preach what they will to their congregants regarding the nature of sex; but they are wrong to interfere in the efforts of the city to stop the spread of STD's (specifically AIDS and HIV in this case) through a tried and proven system of action and education.

It is immoral and religiously wrong for a secular Jewish mayor to hand out condoms to Roman Catholics and Protestants which have not been officially blessed by leaders of their respective churches. Besides, teenagers are not going to contract or infect others with deadly sex diseases if they are criminally charged and locked up for spreading them.

So, what now?? YOu are suddenly making Bloomberg from a secularist to a Jewish
person? You are making claims about 'morality' that are imposing your view on others. If you don't like it. don't send you children to public schools.
[/quote]

Furthermore, just as the preacher has the right to talk about sex to his congregants, so does the city's elected mayor. He's not being nosey, he's acting as a responsible leader should.

It is not kosher or halal for a Jewish mayor to be handing out condoms to Christian and Islamic students, even if he were to pay for them himself, which he wouldn't dare do. It is anti-Christian to approve of teenage drinking, smoking and fornication.[/quote]

Since he is working in a secular environment, kosher or halal is relavent. you are mixing up Bloomberg as a secular person and a religious person. As for being 'anti-christian', that is an unsupported asserstion that I am sure the vast majority of christians will disagree with. I don't see how handing out condoms approves of teenage drinking , smoking and fornication. It is an education issue. You are building strawman attacks that are totally irrelavent to what happened and what the issues are.

[jcrawford]

Can you show me where exactly in that article it explicitly says these condoms are only being given to teens? How do you know the majority if not all are going to consenting adults?

In a rare joint statement attacking Mayor Bloomberg's administration, the Catholic leaders said they were particularly disturbed that the "NYC" branded condoms were handed out by city workers to young teens on the streets Wednesday.

"The decision of the City of New York to distribute [26] million free condoms to the public - and minors as well, according to news reports - is tragic and misguided," Egan and DiMarzio said.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/02162007/ne ... panile.htm

http://www.participate.net/node/1337

[Confused]

Can you show me where exactly in that article it explicitly says these condoms are only being given to teens? How do you know the majority if not all are going to consenting adults?

In a rare joint statement attacking Mayor Bloomberg's administration, the Catholic leaders said they were particularly disturbed that the "NYC" branded condoms were handed out by city workers to young teens on the streets Wednesday.

"The decision of the City of New York to distribute [26] million free condoms to the public - and minors as well, according to news reports - is tragic and misguided," Egan and DiMarzio said.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/02162007/ne ... panile.htm

http://www.participate.net/node/1337

From your own site:

The Health Department had instructed the employees not to offer free condoms to minors, but The Post on Wednesday observed what appeared to be young teenagers taking handfuls of condoms.

This is the only mentioning of minors and they weren't being handed to them, some young teenagers may have taken some, but you cannot expect a few workers to notice everything. Nowhere in your ludicrous report does it say the government was interfering with teenage sexuality by condoning it via providing condoms. Once again, you present false facts in an effort to gain support for false reasons.

[jcrawford]

Christians, Muslims and Jews are commanded to marry, be faithful, fruitful and multiply.

We have done that. Look at the numbers of people in the world. Now what. We are also commanded to be stewards of the earth, and too many people on the earth mean we are not being GOOD stewards of it.

It is not up to Bloomberg to control the birthrate of Jews, Christians and Muslims by giving condoms to school age children. Married Jews, Christians and Muslims have the right to procreate and to send their children to safe, sex-free and drug-free public schools. When the public schools don't teach Christian children properly then Christians have every right to condemn and demonstrate against the corrupt and immoral secular mayor, school chancellor, health commissioner and head of the teachers union.

These people are going to public school. As such, they are secularists.

The sexual indoctrination and exposure of Jewish, Christian and Islamic schoolchildren to the immoral sex practices of sex predators and secular perverts in the NYC public school system is contributory to the phenomenal rise of sexually transmitted diseases, pregancies, abortions and early death amongst teenagers during the past 30 years.

I am sure you would rather have the children in ignornace, rather then they learn about such things as responsiblity, prevention of disease, and such terrible things like evolution and biology.

Jewish, Christian and Islamic parents are responsible for seeing that their children in public schools get a proper education and not a secularly perverted one.

So, what now?? YOu are suddenly making Bloomberg from a secularist to a Jewish person?

He is a Jewish secularist and has no business regulating or interfering with the sex lives of Christian and Islamic families in America.

You are making claims about 'morality' that are imposing your view on others. If you don't like it. don't send you children to public schools.

Christians and Muslims have a civil right to send their children to public schools and not to be discriminated against on the basis of their religious beliefs. If you don't like Christianity or Islam, then don't send your children to church or mosque where they are taught to be Christians and Muslims who do not conform to the immoral sexual teachings and practices of secular school officials like Bloomberg, Klein, Freiden and Weingarten.

Since he is working in a secular environment, kosher or halal is relavent. you are mixing up Bloomberg as a secular person and a religious person.

He is not acting as a religious person when he advises city and public school workers to hand out condoms to Jewish, Christian and Islamic children on NYC streets and in public schools.

As for being 'anti-christian', that is an unsupported asserstion that I am sure the vast majority of christians will disagree with. I don't see how handing out condoms approves of teenage drinking , smoking and fornication.

NYC schoolchildren who are encouraged to use condoms when having sex are fornicating with the approval of a secular mayor et al, but do not have the blessings of the Jewish, Christian and Islamic leaders of NYC.

It is an education issue. You are building strawman attacks that are totally irrelavent to what happened and what the issues are.

The health, safety and moral well-being of Jewish, Christian and Islamic schoolchildren is a religious issue as far as NYC Jews, Christians and Muslims are concerned, because sex predators and secular perverts have no right to sexually indoctrinate and pervert the children of NYC Jews, Christians and Muslims.

[jcrawford]

http://www.participate.net/node/1337

From your own site:

The Health Department had instructed the employees not to offer free condoms to minors, but The Post on Wednesday observed what appeared to be young teenagers taking handfuls of condoms.

This is the only mentioning of minors and they weren't being handed to them, some young teenagers may have taken some, but you cannot expect a few workers to notice everything. Nowhere in your ludicrous report does it say the government was interfering with teenage sexuality by condoning it via providing condoms. Once again, you present false facts in an effort to gain support for false reasons.

As the above website indicates, NYC has been handing out millions of condoms to minors in NYC public schools for years ever since the Rainbow Coalition introduced such immoral and perverted public programs in the schools more than 20 years ago.

What is new with this mayor is his utter disregard, disrespect and contempt for the criticism directed against him by the R.C. Archdiocese of NY.

My only criticism of the Archdiocese is that it does not organize a religous vigil and civil demonstration against our profane secular mayor and his immoral and perverted sexual advisors.

[jcrawford]

http://www.participate.net/node/1337

From your own site:

The Health Department had instructed the employees not to offer free condoms to minors, but The Post on Wednesday observed what appeared to be young teenagers taking handfuls of condoms.

This is the only mentioning of minors and they weren't being handed to them, some young teenagers may have taken some, but you cannot expect a few workers to notice everything. Nowhere in your ludicrous report does it say the government was interfering with teenage sexuality by condoning it via providing condoms. Once again, you present false facts in an effort to gain support for false reasons.

As the above website indicates, NYC has been handing out millions of condoms to minors in NYC public schools for years ever since the Rainbow Coalition introduced such immoral programs more than 20 years ago.

What is new is our mayor's utter disregard, disrespect and contempt for what certain religious leaders had to say about his immoral, corrupt and sexually perverted program.

My only criticism of the NY Archdiocese is that they have failed to organize a religious vigil and civil demonstration in front of City Hall protesting the mayor's sexually perverted program of encouraging Jewish, Christian and Islamic schoolchildren to fornicate and sin in the face of God.