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http://www.abdn.ac.uk/~gmi196/DrylandRi ... dplain.htmThe Ross River (flowing from top to bottom) joins the Todd River (flowing from left to right) about 40 km east of Alice Springs. This air photograph, acquired in the early 1950s, shows some major palaeoflood features. Immediately left of the Ross River channel is a large palaeochannel, 3-5 times wider than the modern channel with a pendant bar below the small hill at top centre. A field of giant ripples can be seen at top right with a large palaeoflood gully system immediately below. The bright area in the upper right hand corner is a grazed area centred on a waterpoint. Copyright © AUSLIG.
http://www.abdn.ac.uk/~gmi196/DrylandRi ... _Field.htmThe floodplain of the Ross River, close to its junction with the Todd River, E. of Alice Springs, contains many large palaeoflood features. The diagonal lineations in this image are giant ripples. These features are usually less than 1 m in height, 10-20 m wide and aligned at right angles to the flow of a large palaeoflood that must have covered the whole floodplain. Sediments are very fine and the features are being rapidly destroyed by wind erosion. The age of the flood is uncertain. Field of view in the middle of the image is 1.5-2.0 km
And can you prove there are 'no known mechanism and examples for this to happen'.otseng wrote:It's very interesting that ribbed moraines are said to "look similar to giant current ripples", yet no one proposes that they are actually made by water. And yet there are no known examples or known mechanisms by which ice can form ribbed moraines.
Also, drumlins are "thought to be a waveform (similar to ripples of sand at the bottom of a stream)". Yet again, most all (conventional) geologists believe it's formed by ice. And again, there are no known examples or known mechanisms for this to happen.
We see formations similar to ribbed moraines and drumlins all the time on a small scale where there are soil/sand and water flow. So, wouldn't it make the most logical sense to explain their formation by water action, rather than ice action?
New York is known for the fact that heavy galcerial activity happened there on multiple occations. You can go up in the mountains, and see sections of bedrock that have scraps on them that show the directoin of the flow of glaciers. These scrapes are formed as the glacier drags smaller rocks along their path.Drumlins are common in New York, the lower Connecticut River valley, eastern Massachusetts, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Southern Ontario, Poland, around the Lake of Constance in the Alps, Ireland, Finland and Patagonia. They are regarded as a creation of the last Wisconsin ice age. Clew Bay in Ireland is a good example of a 'drowned drumlin' landscape where the drumlins appear as islands in the sea, forming a 'basket of eggs' topography. Drumlins are typically aligned parallel to one another, usually clustered together in numbers reaching the hundreds or even thousands.
I don't see what you are trying to demonstrate here? The land forms you discuss are undoubtedly associated with glaciation. What does it matter if they were caused directly by ice or by some secondary effect? It seems to me that, interesting though the discussion is, it belongs rather more appropriately in the proceedings of your local Geological Society than in this forum.goat wrote:And can you prove there are 'no known mechanism and examples for this to happen'.otseng wrote:It's very interesting that ribbed moraines are said to "look similar to giant current ripples", yet no one proposes that they are actually made by water. And yet there are no known examples or known mechanisms by which ice can form ribbed moraines.
Also, drumlins are "thought to be a waveform (similar to ripples of sand at the bottom of a stream)". Yet again, most all (conventional) geologists believe it's formed by ice. And again, there are no known examples or known mechanisms for this to happen.
We see formations similar to ribbed moraines and drumlins all the time on a small scale where there are soil/sand and water flow. So, wouldn't it make the most logical sense to explain their formation by water action, rather than ice action?
After all, we DO have other examples.. from your own article
New York is known for the fact that heavy galcial activity happened there on multiple occasions. You can go up in the mountains, and see sections of bedrock that have scraps on them that show the directoin of the flow of glaciers. These scrapes are formed as the glacier drags smaller rocks along their path.Drumlins are common in New York, the lower Connecticut River valley, eastern Massachusetts, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Southern Ontario, Poland, around the Lake of Constance in the Alps, Ireland, Finland and Patagonia. They are regarded as a creation of the last Wisconsin ice age. Clew Bay in Ireland is a good example of a 'drowned drumlin' landscape where the drumlins appear as islands in the sea, forming a 'basket of eggs' topography. Drumlins are typically aligned parallel to one another, usually clustered together in numbers reaching the hundreds or even thousands.
All I'm asking is to present the known mechanisms of how ice can create drumlins. If there are none, then water is a more viable explanation than ice.goat wrote:And can you prove there are 'no known mechanism and examples for this to happen'.
This does not address how ice can form drumlins.After all, we DO have other examples.. from your own articleNew York is known for the fact that heavy galcerial activity happened there on multiple occations. You can go up in the mountains, and see sections of bedrock that have scraps on them that show the directoin of the flow of glaciers. These scrapes are formed as the glacier drags smaller rocks along their path.Drumlins are common in New York, the lower Connecticut River valley, eastern Massachusetts, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Southern Ontario, Poland, around the Lake of Constance in the Alps, Ireland, Finland and Patagonia. They are regarded as a creation of the last Wisconsin ice age. Clew Bay in Ireland is a good example of a 'drowned drumlin' landscape where the drumlins appear as islands in the sea, forming a 'basket of eggs' topography. Drumlins are typically aligned parallel to one another, usually clustered together in numbers reaching the hundreds or even thousands.
Just because you might not like the conclusion does not mean that the argument is not sound.Dion wrote: If you are suggesting that any of this material is any kind of evidence of a global flood on the biblical model, then, frankly, I see no reason to waste any more of my time on such a ridiculous claim.
That's not really helpful in debating. And even borders on ad hominem.Learn some real geology and stop trying to 'cherry pick' the bits that you think may help you with your creationist agenda. Get out onto the rocks and do some real field research and you'll soon understand why geologists dismiss your suggestions out of hand.
otseng wrote:All I'm asking is to present the known mechanisms of how ice can create drumlins. If there are none, then water is a more viable explanation than ice.goat wrote:And can you prove there are 'no known mechanism and examples for this to happen'.
This does not address how ice can form drumlins.After all, we DO have other examples.. from your own articleNo, it doesn't (It looks like there are several arguements that are competing). However, it does show that drumlins are common where there used to be glaciers.Drumlins are common in New York, the lower Connecticut River valley, eastern Massachusetts, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Southern Ontario, Poland, around the Lake of Constance in the Alps, Ireland, Finland and Patagonia. They are regarded as a creation of the last Wisconsin ice age. Clew Bay in Ireland is a good example of a 'drowned drumlin' landscape where the drumlins appear as islands in the sea, forming a 'basket of eggs' topography. Drumlins are typically aligned parallel to one another, usually clustered together in numbers reaching the hundreds or even thousands.
Now, there appears to be a situation where
1) Drumlins are common where there were glaciers
2) Drumlins do not exist where there weren't any glaciers.
from those two observations, it can be concluded
3) Glaciers have a role in the formation of Drumlins.
New York is known for the fact that heavy galcerial activity happened there on multiple occations. You can go up in the mountains, and see sections of bedrock that have scraps on them that show the directoin of the flow of glaciers. These scrapes are formed as the glacier drags smaller rocks along their path.
I don't doubt that such scraping exists. But could you cite your reference for this?goat wrote:New York is known for the fact that heavy galcerial activity happened there on multiple occations. You can go up in the mountains, and see sections of bedrock that have scraps on them that show the directoin of the flow of glaciers. These scrapes are formed as the glacier drags smaller rocks along their path.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age#Ev ... r_ice_agesGeological evidence for ice ages comes in various forms, including rock scouring and scratching, glacial moraines, drumlins, valley cutting, and the deposition of till or tillites and glacial erratics.
If you rubbed two sheets of solids together, wouldn't it just result in a smooth surface rather than more bumps?Furrowed Brow wrote:Underneath the receding ice sheet there will be solids, and the ice is a solid, and by definition there is friction and movement, if you could speed up history, would you see the base of the ice sheet, though solid like the boulders in an avalanche, actually behaving much like a liquid.
I have lived in that area, and have seen it first hand. That is my reference. However, I found this quite quickly.otseng wrote:I don't doubt that such scraping exists. But could you cite your reference for this?goat wrote:New York is known for the fact that heavy galcerial activity happened there on multiple occations. You can go up in the mountains, and see sections of bedrock that have scraps on them that show the directoin of the flow of glaciers. These scrapes are formed as the glacier drags smaller rocks along their path.
