Can atheists and believers agree in one religion?

przemeknowicki · Post by **przemeknowicki** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 10:56 pm

I am thinking of retirement and about summarizing my life experiences in a book on politics and religion. I hope it is not against the rules of this forum to point you to my website because I need it to start the discussion.
Here it is www.freedomgates.net
Please skip the political part and read what I had to say in the religion section.
Tell me please if you have any thoughts, comments, agreements and disagreements. Forums have always been my best inspiration and I hope again to gather more material for my book. I hope to learn from you.

Thank you for participating.

Thomas Orr (my assumed name)

Amadeus · Post by **Amadeus** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:05 pm

NO! Being a Christian means trusting that Christ died for your sins so that you can go to heaven. We look at how Jesus lived and follow Him because of what He did for us.

Bro Dave · Post by **Bro Dave** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:55 pm

BeHereNow wrote:Yes, przemeknowicki,
The message of Christianity is the Life of Christ, not the Death of Jesus.

THANK YOU! It is so encouraging to know that SOMEBODY has gotten it RIGHT!

Bro Dave

Amadeus · Post by **Amadeus** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:58 pm

You have it all wrong. I weep for you.

being05 · Post by **being05** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:24 pm

We assume that what we think is right for us is right. Right and wrong is only relevent to the individual. Who's to say that everything we think is right is wrong and the opposite? I just think we all look to conclude things too quickly without proper research

TQWcS · Post by **TQWcS** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:01 pm

Right and wrong is only relevent to the individual.

I disagree. Something may seem right to an individual that is indeed wrong. Just because he thinks something is right does not change the fact that it is wrong. If I told you a lie and you believed it, does that make it true? No, the truth still remains.

Amadeus · Post by **Amadeus** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:03 pm

Right and wrong are NOT relative. I don't know any sane person who thinks it is right to musrder a human being. Are you saying that criminals should not be punished for their crimes because they believe they did nothing wrong?

There are absolutes.

Corvus · Post by **Corvus** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:52 pm

Amadeus wrote:Right and wrong are NOT relative. I don't know any sane person who thinks it is right to musrder a human being. Are you saying that criminals should not be punished for their crimes because they believe they did nothing wrong?

There are absolutes.

In an earlier post you [url=http://www.debatingchristianity.com/for ... =8662#8662]These are laws that God gave the Israelites to teach them Holiness and how God expects them to behave. They are relative to their present day culture[/quote]

This was to object to the Old Testament rules still being in place, which, you might remember, if broken, would frequently be punishable by death. Aren't all laws relative to not just their day and culture? If laws were not relative to something, they would all be without weight. It seems to me that the only reason God's laws are not called relative is because they come from an absulute authority. Yet, as seen in the new and old testaments, the absolute authoratives can change the laws to make them current with a new culture and time; or he can tell people when to break the laws so that murder is acceptable, as when he had the Hebrews invade a country; or break the rules himself, as when he killed the first born sons of Egypt to prove a point. If the laws themselves were absolutely right or wrong, then god himself would be capable of doing wrong.

Amadeus · Post by **Amadeus** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:55 pm

Your examples of God killing people is not exactly accurate.

God said "thou shall not kill", which can be translated as "thou shall not murder"

When God killed people, it was out of righteous judgement. Not murder.

przemeknowicki · Post by **przemeknowicki** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:57 pm

Amadeus wrote:NOT ADAM AND EVE"S SINS. YOUR AND MY SINS. A sin can be a little thing like a lie, or not honoring your parents, or treating someone unfairly. You have sinned. Just think about it.

Predictably as a "true Christian" you steer the discussion into focusing on the small picture. Your sins, your parents, your friends, your prayers.

Let me ask you a question. Do you think Jesus Christ was more interested in the small picture, or in the big picture? Adepts of Yogi attempt to break the little self and encompass the entire Universe in their meditations. Do you think Jesus Christ would settle for less? Do you think that God is more interested in accounting for all your little sins and shortcomings, or He would be more interested in creating the just society where even your shortcomings don't amount to much?

Well, I am a prophet and I am interested in the big picture. I am not interested in analyzing your little sins. May peace be with you.

Regards,

Thomas Orr

Corvus · Post by **Corvus** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:01 pm

Amadeus wrote:Your examples of God killing people is not exactly accurate.

God said "thou shall not kill", which can be translated as "thou shall not murder"

When God killed people, it was out of righteous judgement. Not murder.

But God decides when it is murder and when it is killing. The point is that God is not subject to these absolutes of which you speak, but the absolutes are subject to God. I argue this in my Is Christian morality absolute? thread.