Pagans and Christians only.. paganism with Christianity

[Noachian]

Can Christianity and paganism be combined, Not that I want to combine them with my own beliefes personaly I think It wouldnt work but I want to know your answer.....oh and by the way can some one please move this poll to Christianity and Apologetics.

[samuelbb7]

Actaully it is mostly Catholicism and some Orthodox who have combined Christianity with Paganism. Not Christianity in general and not protestants in particular.

Although Protestants often accept some Pagan practices. Example Christmas which to me is just a time for a vacation and is not a relgious holiday. We do use it to speak of JESUS.

There are facets of Paganism that will not combine with Christianity especially if it sticks closer to it's Jewish base.

[Cathar1950]

Actaully it is mostly Catholicism and some Orthodox who have combined Christianity with Paganism. Not Christianity in general and not protestants in particular.

Although Protestants often accept some Pagan practices. Example Christmas which to me is just a time for a vacation and is not a relgious holiday. We do use it to speak of JESUS.

There are facets of Paganism that will not combine with Christianity especially if it sticks closer to it's Jewish base.

Of course it is those Catholics and some Orthodox. Unless your are Mennonite, Ebonite or something what choice do you have?
How do you know what is a pagan practice or not?
Do you celebrate Xmas?

[samuelbb7]

Dear cathar

Of course it is those Catholics and some Orthodox. Unless your are Mennonite, Ebonite or something what choice do you have?

The Ebonites would have lest of any pagan influence at all since they were very jewish in outlook. Menoties are a latter group and are more influenced by Rome. We all have some Pagan influence. The days of the week are named after pagan gods.

How do you know what is a pagan practice or not?
Do you celebrate Xmas?

Well if the practice is not from the bible it might be pagan. Which eliminates a number of beliefs. The history of any religious practice can be looked up quite easily. I like Wikepdia. NOw do I celebrate Xmas. I celebrate any day I can get off from work. It is a nice day and we do give presents. But it is not a religious Holy day. Just a day the world remembers that JESUS changed it.

[Catharsis]

>>Actaully it is mostly Catholicism and some Orthodox who have combined Christianity with Paganism.<<

Is there any proof for this assertion?!

[Cathar1950]

Dear cathar

Of course it is those Catholics and some Orthodox. Unless your are Mennonite, Ebonite or something what choice do you have?

The Ebonites would have lest of any pagan influence at all since they were very jewish in outlook. Menoties are a latter group and are more influenced by Rome. We all have some Pagan influence. The days of the week are named after pagan gods.

How do you know what is a pagan practice or not?
Do you celebrate Xmas?

Well if the practice is not from the bible it might be pagan. Which eliminates a number of beliefs. The history of any religious practice can be looked up quite easily. I like Wikepdia. NOw do I celebrate Xmas. I celebrate any day I can get off from work. It is a nice day and we do give presents. But it is not a religious Holy day. Just a day the world remembers that JESUS changed it.

I went from a Mennonite to a Ebonite understanding as a naturalist and a monist but at this point I think it is traditions that survive and only have value beyond historical and cultural understanding that we give them.
I think there was a problem very early on where confusion developed between the Jewish concept of Messiah as a human king and the dying rising god cults.
This seems like a natural event and could almost be expected. Persia and other great city-states and Empires also influenced the area including what would become second Temple Judaism.
Like the their Neighbors the Hebrews and Caannonites hardly had a concept of life after death until late and their god was not much more then a tribal god like other around them. It is not until the the reformer kings after the fall of Israel in the south that you start seeming one temple, one priesthood, one king and one god.
It is really a complicated story made up of stories from more then one side of just about any given issue.

[samuelbb7]

To Cahtaris

Catholic and Orthodox have adopted pagan holidays and made them Christian. Such as easter, and Christmas. Many names of pagan goddess are applied to mary. Graven Images are from Pagan sources. Much of the way the priesthood operates and the images are very close to Mitharism and Egyptian priesthoods.

There are whole books written on these. Also some atheists hit me with some of these points all the time.

[Cathar1950]

To Cahtaris

Catholic and Orthodox have adopted pagan holidays and made them Christian. Such as easter, and Christmas. Many names of pagan goddess are applied to mary. Graven Images are from Pagan sources. Much of the way the priesthood operates and the images are very close to Mitharism and Egyptian priesthoods.

There are whole books written on these. Also some atheists hit me with some of these points all the time.

Which shouldn't surprise us as so do the many roots of Jewish practice, holidays, ancient approved graven images. The world and history like our religions are not in a vacuum no matter how clear it seems to us.
All of us have right-wing crazies and those Zealous for the Law or whatever the object and Judaism and Second Temple Judaism, Israel, the Samaritans, all go back to what we would think of as pagan and until the short lived reforms of Josiah and Hezekiah and Josiah and later Ezra which seem to be failed dreams and prophecies pushed by xenophobes. Many Jews and Christians still maintain their faith and community understanding that. There are plenty of Rabbitic writings full of questions an speculation as the realize the ancient scripts were only human.
So sure the Christians were an inovation and hijacked the Hebrew writing and took some of their methods and interpretationh of readings thru the Greek mind. But the Jewish faith did the same thing and have many of the same roots.
They just seem to have a more mature way of handeling the knowledge. But like I sais, we all have are crazies.

[samuelbb7]

Interesting Cathar.

I understand your view. You might classify me as a crazy.

I do have one question. What grave image did the jews borrow from pagans?

[Cathar1950]

Interesting Cathar.

I understand your view. You might classify me as a crazy.

I do have one question. What grave image did the jews borrow from pagans?

We can start with the solar disk in the temple, the Ark, The snake on a stick destroyed by Hezekiah, the Assuriah's destroyed by Josiah as well as the High Places where the opposition priests often hung out including Shiloh, and go back even farther when human sacrifices where made YHWH up at least until the time of David and Solomon, or when El was looked at as a mountain, volcano or even a phallic replacing the vulva.
We see sings of the influences of their neighbors including the idea of the covenant which is largely Assyrian and the dualism for their Persian overlords as well as the influence of the gods of Canaan and Babylon and Sumer before that.
What you have as an OT is the finished work of Ezra from varied works that often had opposing views. So I wouldn't get all snooty over the NT depiction of a man as god even if it is rather dubious.

[samuelbb7]

Dear Cathar1950

We can start with the solar disk in the temple, the Ark,

Are you saying the ark was a disk? That does not seem to work with me.

The snake on a stick destroyed by Hezekiah, the Assuriah's destroyed by Josiah as well as the High Places where the opposition priests often hung out including Shiloh

,

The snake on the stick was not to be worshipped. The other was idols fought against by Israel. They were against the law of GOD which is why they were destroyed.

and go back even farther when human sacrifices where made YHWH up at least until the time of David and Solomon,

Human sacrifice were prohibited by the Torah. Those that were made were to Baal not YHWH.

or when El was looked at as a mountain, volcano or even a phallic replacing the vulva.

GOD talked on the mountain he was not the mountain. So again I do not get this one.

We see sings of the influences of their neighbors including the idea of the covenant which is largely Assyrian and the dualism for their Persian overlords as well as the influence of the gods of Canaan and Babylon and Sumer before that.

Now true the Covenant is similar to Israel theology. But contracts are somewhat universal. I also know many state they see these comparisons. But which influenced which. If the Bible is correct these taught by others were corrupted doctrines kept over from leaving the truth.

What you have as an OT is the finished work of Ezra from varied works that often had opposing views. So I wouldn't get all snooty over the NT depiction of a man as god even if it is rather dubious.

I did not know I was snooty. Did not mean to be. I understand and have read the Ezra teaching. Just do not believe it.