Does debating helpt people find Jesus?

[Pipiripi]

Hi. I ask myself, did all this debating bring people to Jesus,? Did you have bring someone through this debating? For me I think not. Because no body has says to me "okay thanks, now I know what I am looking for. Item if someone see the truth, they ignore it. In place to see together what the Bible teached, they attact you with a blind mind. I'm not telling that I have the truth. I want you to search if what I'm saying is true. I really want to talk with people who are open for an open debate. See you soon.

[Divine Insight]

[Replying to post 8 by Pipiripi]

I don't see where anything you've said has anything to do with truth.

Before it makes any sense to talk about any hearsay claims about what Jesus might have supposedly said or meant you would need to establish that Jesus himself had any authority to say anything.

Where does Jesus get his authority to speak about supposed spiritual matters? Well, supposedly Jesus was the planned-out virgin-born demigod Son of Yahweh. This is where Jesus supposedly obtains his authority.

So before we can even speak about Jesus we need to have reasons to believe that a God named Yahweh actually existed, did all of the things in the Old Testament, including making all the rules and commands given in those texts.

Then we need to show that it makes sense that this God was so inept that after having failed in every attempt he made in the Old Testament to rid mankind of sin, this God finally had to resort to the extreme desperation of planning to have his own son born of a mortal woman with the express purpose of having him brutally crucified and nailed to a cross to be the symbol of God's grace as the centerfold of Christianity.

Yet another violent and crude act orchestrated by this God that has apparently also failed to rid the world of sin for over 2000 years.

We have no evidence that any such God exists. Moreover, even if we had evidence for the existence of this God it should be crystal clear that this God is the most inept God we can imagine being unable to deal with the sin of his creation for over 4000+ years.

We even have Jesus declaring that only few will find their way to eternal life leaving the vast majority of human souls to be condemned to eternal damnation.

At the very best, this is a God who looses the vast majority of human souls that he creates. It's a religious tale about the most inept creator imaginable. A creator who loses the vase majority of souls he creates and is completely helpless to do any better. So helpless that his last act to save a few souls was to sacrifice his only begotten Son to a brutal crucifixion. This is apparently a God who can't solve any problems without retorting to extreme violence and desperation.

That's the God that we are being asked to believe exist. And there is no compelling evidence that any such God actually exists. It makes far more sense to recognize these ancient religious tales as nothing more than the folklore of a patriarchal superstitious culture that created a God in their own image. A God who is just as inept and ignorant as they were.

So where is there any evidence that these tales have anything to do with any God?

Talking about the hearsay Gospels that make self-contradictory claims about what some Jesus might have said is meaningless until we can demonstrate that there is any reason to think that this entire fable is true.

This Jesus character didn't even write anything down himself. All we have to go by are stories about him written decades after he had supposedly lived making claims about what he had supposedly said.

So when we say that "Jesus said" this or that, it's basically meaningless. We can't even know whether the man named Jesus even said those things at all.

The Gospels contain contradictory scriptures attributed to Jesus. So it's anyone's guess what any actual Jesus might have actually said anyway. Never mind that we haven't even established that he's the sacrificial lamb of a God who is so inept that he couldn't solve any problems without restoring to having humans crucify his demigod Son.

I mean, the whole thing is pretty absurd don't you think?

Why should we believe any of the hearsay Gospels about Jesus?

You'll need to justify the existence and behavior of Yahweh before you jump ahead to talking about Jesus.

Without demonstrating the truth of the existence of Yahweh, talking about the hearsay gospel rumors of Jesus is meaningless.

[Aetixintro]

[Replying to post 10 by Pipiripi]

Despite the denominations, it does not mean that people do not respect one another. They do, generally speaking, also witnessed by the work of United Nations and Universal Human Rights (UDHR).

Even Jesus says "Keep the commandments in order to get eternal life!" See Matthew 19 - The Rich and the Kingdom of God - Matthew 19:16-18, link: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV.

Hah, hah, hah! See also this incredible list for "keeping the commandments": https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearc ... ersion=NIV.

Any good?

[Pipiripi]

[Replying to post 8 by Pipiripi]

I don't see where anything you've said has anything to do with truth.

Before it makes any sense to talk about any hearsay claims about what Jesus might have supposedly said or meant you would need to establish that Jesus himself had any authority to say anything.

Where does Jesus get his authority to speak about supposed spiritual matters? Well, supposedly Jesus was the planned-out virgin-born demigod Son of Yahweh. This is where Jesus supposedly obtains his authority.

So before we can even speak about Jesus we need to have reasons to believe that a God named Yahweh actually existed, did all of the things in the Old Testament, including making all the rules and commands given in those texts.

Then we need to show that it makes sense that this God was so inept that after having failed in every attempt he made in the Old Testament to rid mankind of sin, this God finally had to resort to the extreme desperation of planning to have his own son born of a mortal woman with the express purpose of having him brutally crucified and nailed to a cross to be the symbol of God's grace as the centerfold of Christianity.

Yet another violent and crude act orchestrated by this God that has apparently also failed to rid the world of sin for over 2000 years.

We have no evidence that any such God exists. Moreover, even if we had evidence for the existence of this God it should be crystal clear that this God is the most inept God we can imagine being unable to deal with the sin of his creation for over 4000+ years.

We even have Jesus declaring that only few will find their way to eternal life leaving the vast majority of human souls to be condemned to eternal damnation.

At the very best, this is a God who looses the vast majority of human souls that he creates. It's a religious tale about the most inept creator imaginable. A creator who loses the vase majority of souls he creates and is completely helpless to do any better. So helpless that his last act to save a few souls was to sacrifice his only begotten Son to a brutal crucifixion. This is apparently a God who can't solve any problems without retorting to extreme violence and desperation.

That's the God that we are being asked to believe exist. And there is no compelling evidence that any such God actually exists. It makes far more sense to recognize these ancient religious tales as nothing more than the folklore of a patriarchal superstitious culture that created a God in their own image. A God who is just as inept and ignorant as they were.

So where is there any evidence that these tales have anything to do with any God?

Talking about the hearsay Gospels that make self-contradictory claims about what some Jesus might have said is meaningless until we can demonstrate that there is any reason to think that this entire fable is true.

This Jesus character didn't even write anything down himself. All we have to go by are stories about him written decades after he had supposedly lived making claims about what he had supposedly said.

So when we say that "Jesus said" this or that, it's basically meaningless. We can't even know whether the man named Jesus even said those things at all.

The Gospels contain contradictory scriptures attributed to Jesus. So it's anyone's guess what any actual Jesus might have actually said anyway. Never mind that we haven't even established that he's the sacrificial lamb of a God who is so inept that he couldn't solve any problems without restoring to having humans crucify his demigod Son.

I mean, the whole thing is pretty absurd don't you think?

Why should we believe any of the hearsay Gospels about Jesus?

You'll need to justify the existence and behavior of Yahweh before you jump ahead to talking about Jesus.

Without demonstrating the truth of the existence of Yahweh, talking about the hearsay gospel rumors of Jesus is meaningless.

My friend this is your problem, you most see to believe. And i really want to know I'm what your believing is. All that you have write is from someone who has twist the Bible. I am sure you never has read the Bible with an open mind. Everyday miracles is happing before your eyes. But you are blind. Only true Christians can understand why they are in this world. True Christians are not from this world. We are here because we was in the plan of God for existence. Invade me to go an other debating site here, so we can debate about our beliefs. And I will proof you all the evidence that God exists against your believing. One thing for you think of. My God don't have a beginning. I'm waiting for you.

[Tcg]

Hi. I ask myself, did all this debating bring people to Jesus,?

That would depend on what you mean by bringing people to Jesus. What I see mostly in debates is Christians arguing with other Christians over minor details which may or may not be in the bible, but make absolutely no difference when it comes to daily life.

Sometimes they may argue with each other about more important issues like what is required to enter the mythological place they call heaven or whether Jesus claimed to be a mythological being or simply a man. Given that the bible is totally unclear about both of these issues, these arguments never resolve anything and will never end.

The only time Christians seem to be united in debates is when they address an atheist who dares to point out the astounding weakness of the arguments they present to defend Christianity. This approach almost always involves creating a straw man representations of atheism which displays a complete and total ignorance of atheism.

So, if arguing over minor details, arguing over unresolvable major issues, or using logical fallacies against atheists brings some Christians closer to Jesus, then the answer is, yes.

[Divine Insight]

My friend this is your problem, you most see to believe. And i really want to know I'm what your believing is. All that you have write is from someone who has twist the Bible. I am sure you never has read the Bible with an open mind. Everyday miracles is happing before your eyes. But you are blind. Only true Christians can understand why they are in this world. True Christians are not from this world. We are here because we was in the plan of God for existence. Invade me to go an other debating site here, so we can debate about our beliefs. And I will proof you all the evidence that God exists against your believing. One thing for you think of. My God don't have a beginning. I'm waiting for you.

All you have done here is tell me what you believe. You haven't given a compelling argument for why anyone should believe what you believe.

You say that I am blind, but that's absolute nonsense. Christianity is supposed to be about moral character, not about misunderstandings or an inability to see something. In fact, people who don't even believe in a particular God cannot possibly reject a God that they don't even believe exists. Therefore it's actually impossible for a non-believer of Christianity to reject the Christian God.

Christianity is a man-made religion designed to convince people that if they refuse to believe it in they will be condemned to hell for their non-belief.

Think about it. Does that tactic actually make any sense for an actual creator God?

Surely not.

Christianity is supposed to be about moral values, yet all you can do is claim that I am blind?

Are you going to claim that I'm an immoral person?

That's what you would need to claim if you want to condemn me using Christianity.

Clearly Christianity is not about morality at all. And this is why Christian theists need to rely on all these utterly absurd claims that people are blind, etc.

I'm assuming that you have fallen for those claims. Otherwise you wouldn't be supporting the religion. But unless you believe that you are an immoral person, why should you think that it would be necessary for some God to have his Son brutally crucified on a pole to pay for your sins?

To believe in Christianity you must necessarily believe that you are a horribly immoral person. Is that what you believe?

Because if you aren't a horribly immoral person, then it would make no sense that a God would need to have humans brutally crucify Jesus to pay for your horrible immoral character.

Not only this, but since when does it make any sense to brutally crucify an innocent person in order to offer a guilty person free amnesty?

The religion doesn't even make any sense at all.

You haven't debated the religion. All you've done is accuse me of being blind. That's an extreme cop-out for not having anything credible to offer to support your religion don't you think?

Christianity is a religion that cannot justify itself, so it turns to underhanded tactics of simply accusing non-believers of being blind, or some other such nonsense.

That already shows that you have nothing of value to offer in terms of credible debate.

[Pipiripi]

My meaning is why every Christians don't follow the Bible, the way the Bible teached. We are living in the last day. There will be two groups, not a thousands denominations. So in which one we are standing now?

[Pipiripi]

[Replying to post 15 by Divine Insight]

If you just say something to something about something you don't belief in it. Then you don't know what you are talking. People who don't believed in God, their story don't have a beginning and an End. I just ask a simple question. Who was first the man of the woman? This is question for a non believer. They can never answered this questions because they lived just for the day. Without hope. They believe in evolution, they say ape is their first mom and dad. Their teacher was Charles Darwin. All the others ape-man dies. But the first monkey's are still playing in the jungle. Did I have to believe that my first mom was a monkey!! Who was before the monkey? Tel me the person name who was 1 millions year that have write your belief. My believe has a beginning and an End. I have a book of life called the Bible. When you open it you read: " In the beginning" someone told the story of creation. And that person is a Creator. My end is in this world. But Jesus come back to take me forever with Him. So is better to keep trust in Charles Darwin, and let me trust in JESUS CHRIST. Jesus is still alive and will never died again.

[Neatras]

I just wanna make it clear that I don't know how to debate people who use the above argumentation methods.

Any advice? How does a debate move forward when there is so much of the rhetoric he uses all poured into a single post filled chock full of leading questions? I don't mean to be rude, but it's almost like I feel a sense of failure because the debate is slowed to a crawl while parsing countless strawmen.

When somebody asks questions that are malformed questions, convincing them that their question has no realistic answer is nearly impossible. They simply believe that not having their question answered to their satisfaction means they're right.

[benchwarmer]

[Replying to post 15 by Divine Insight]

If you just say something to something about something you don't belief in it.

What??

Can you please try that again because that sentence makes absolutely no sense.

Then you don't know what you are talking.

Yes, if you make jibberish sentences nobody knows what you are talking about.

People who don't believed in God, their story don't have a beginning and an End.

?

Everyone's 'story' has a beginning and an end regardless of what they believe. Are you suggesting non believers are eternal beings with no beginning or end? That what your sentence means.

I just ask a simple question. Who was first the man of the woman?

Did you mean "or" ? Humans (which I assume is who you are talking about) are born from females. Woman means a female human. Since our ancestors were not human at some point, the first man or woman was born from a female ancestor. So, depending where you draw the line in the taxonomy, the answer will change. You do realize that man/woman/human are labels created by humans right?

This is question for a non believer. They can never answered this questions because they lived just for the day. Without hope.

?

More jibberish. Plenty of non believers plan for the future and have hopes and dreams. Your assertions are patently false and basically just preaching. If this is the best you can muster, you are not going to convince anyone of anything.

They believe in evolution, they say ape is their first mom and dad.

Not all non believers understand or believe in evolution. So, another false assertion. My first "mom and dad" were not apes. Clearly you don't understand evolution, maybe that's why you don't believe it.

Their teacher was Charles Darwin. All the others ape-man dies. But the first monkey's are still playing in the jungle. Did I have to believe that my first mom was a monkey!! Who was before the monkey? Tel me the person name who was 1 millions year that have write your belief.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at that ridiculous view of what you think about non believers and evolution. May I suggest some actual study on both topics and get back to us?

My believe has a beginning and an End. I have a book of life called the Bible. When you open it you read: " In the beginning" someone told the story of creation. And that person is a Creator. My end is in this world. But Jesus come back to take me forever with Him. So is better to keep trust in Charles Darwin, and let me trust in JESUS CHRIST. Jesus is still alive and will never died again.

That's some rather belabored preaching. Maybe you should read your 'book of life' a little more closely. IMO, it's a book of death. Not only did the god character rain down death on more than one occasion, the only way to realize the 'life' offered is to, you guessed it, die. And if for some reason you happen to die before you manage to believe the mumbo jumbo put forth in the tome, you will wish you were dead because the vengeful character labeled as a god will torture you forever. Nice "beginning and end' you cling to there.

[Divine Insight]

Jesus is still alive and will never died again.

Well, there you go.

In that case Jesus could not have paid the wages of sin for anyone since the wages of sin is death.

So you've just destroyed Christianity right there by claiming that Jesus is still alive.