The Authorized Version of 1611

[McCulloch]

Doesn't matter. KJV is the infallible word of God, and if it has a comma so we can understand the original context, then it has a comma.

In support of his view, he provided these links:

• How I Know The King James Bible is the Word of God I believe the King James Bible is the preserved and infallible words of God.
• Fundamentalist Ministries (KJV) We believe the King James Version to be this Holy Bible, the inspired, preserved Word of God in the English language. We do not mean that the English language translators were inspired as they translated. However, because what they translated is an accurate and faithful translation of the inspired Hebrew and Greek texts, the King James Version is therefore the inspired, preserved Word of God in the English language. We believe the Masoretic Hebrew text and the Textus Receptus Koine Greek text to be the inspired, preserved Word of God in the Hebrew and Koine Greek languages.
• Why the King James Bible is Still the Best and...The Most Accurate We still have no reason to doubt that the Bible we hold in our hands is the very word of God preserved for us in the English language. The authority for its veracity lies not in the first printing of the King James Version in 1611, or in the character of King James I, or in the scholarship of the 1611 translators, or in the literary accomplishments of Elizabethan England, or even in the Greek Received Text. Our authority for the infallible words of the English Bible lies in the power and promise of God to preserve His Word! God has the power. We have His Word.
• Why I Use the King James Version In conclusion, we advocate the use of the King James Version of the Scriptures, and believe that It should be treated as the Word of God italics and capitalization in the original.
• Why Do We Only Support The King James Version Of The Holy Bible? No one has ever proven that there are errors and contradictions in the KJV. [...] The King James language is NOT hard to understand.

Questions for debate: Is the Authorized Version, also known as the King James Version the one version approved by God for use by English speaking Christians? Is it better than other English versions? Are there any English versions published which are better? In what ways?
_______________________________________
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
1 Thessalonians 5:21 (KJV)

[harvey1]

But BigChrisfilm did express this view and he provided support for it, indicating that he is not just some isolated kook. I have seen nothing in his posts here and elsewhere which would lead me to believe that he is an atheist troll.

He totally contradicted himself by saying that the KJV was the only version to use, and then quoted from the New Living Translation. It's difficult to know for sure, but that's a major inconsistency for a true KJV believer to advocate since they would see it as sin to read another translation (i.e., if they really were serious about what they said about the KJV). In any case, I quoted the KJV in Ecclesiastes 3:18 when I mentioned about humans being animals according to the scriptures, and this person rejected the translation. That's a real giveaway that this person might be disingenuous in their position. Perhaps he's a fundi, but perhaps he's not really a KJV crony.

In any case, almost all of the sites he quoted were very particular in saying that they thought the translation was the best. Almost all of them were saying that they did not think the translation itself was inspired.

[McCulloch]

Anyway, like I said in another post, I read the NLT. I use the KJV as an end all authority. If the NLT disagrees with KJV, then it is wrong. KJV is God's infallible word, and the other translations are good in some degree. NLT is good because it cuts right to the point. You might call NLT the bible for lamens [sic].

emphasis added.

In any case, almost all of the sites he quoted were very particular in saying that they thought the translation was the best. Almost all of them were saying that they did not think the translation itself was inspired.

We believe the King James Version to be this Holy Bible, the inspired, preserved Word of God in the English language. We do not mean that the English language translators were inspired as they translated. However, because what they translated is an accurate and faithful translation of the inspired Hebrew and Greek texts, the King James Version is therefore the inspired, preserved Word of God in the English language. We believe the Masoretic Hebrew text and the Textus Receptus Koine Greek text to be the inspired, preserved Word of God in the Hebrew and Koine Greek languages.[...]
The Scriptures have been recorded and preserved by the Holy Spirit
We believe that the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts which underlie the King James Version (the Masoretic text of the Old Testament and the Textus Receptus of the New Testament) are the preserved words of God. Furthermore, we believe that the King James Version of the Bible is God's preserved word in English and therefore, it shall be the official and only translation of the Holy Scriptures used by this Church and all of its ministries.[...]
We believe that God has preserved His Word in the King James Version. [...]
God not only inspired Scripture in the original languages but also preserved it in accurate translations. Divine inspiration is of no value to Christians without God's promise of preservation. Without apology, we hold up the Authorized Version and say, "This is the Word of God. [....]
We believe in the verbal, plenary inspiration of the Old and New Testaments; the preservation of God's Word forever; that the Masoretic Text, Tex[t]us Receptus, and King James Bible are the preserved Word of God in their respective languages. [...]
Landmark Baptist College believes that the King James Bible is God's preserved Word in the English language. Landmark Baptist College believes that the Textus Receptus is God's preserved New Testament in the Greek language. [...]
adhere to the King James Version as the Word of God. [...]
God promises that He will preserve His Word; Jesus said, "but my words shall not pass away"--Matt. 24:35. We believe God has kept that promise by preserving His infallible Word in the traditional Hebrew and Greek manuscripts and that the Authorized Version (KJV) is an accurate English translation of the preserved Word of God. [...]
We also believe that the King James version of the Bible is the divinely preserved Word of God for the English-speaking people (Psalm 12:6,7) and that it has enjoyed a miraculous manifestation of God's approval all during its history and use [...]
We believe God not only inspired every word, but has preserved them through the ages. We believe the King James Version is the preserved Word of God for the English-speaking people and is the only acceptable translation to be used in this college by faculty or students [...]
We believe that the Word of God has been divinely preserved in the King James Version of the Bible for English speaking people. [...]
We believe that the Received Text (Textus Receptus) carries the full authority of the original autographs which includes the Kings James Version and translations in other languages that are accurately translated from the Received Text [...]
We believe the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be the plenary and verbally inspired Word of God, the supreme and final authority for faith and life, inerrant in the original writings, infallible and God-breathed, preserved today in the King James Authorized Bible, 1611[...]
The Holy Scriptures -- the Bible, the Scriptures of the Old Testament and the New Testament, preserved for us in the Masoretic text (Old Testament) Textus Receptus (New Testament) and in the King James Bible, is verbally and plenarily inspired of God. It is the inspired, inerrant, infallible, and altogether authentic, accurate and authoritative Word of God, therefore the supreme and final authority in all things[...]

emphasis mine.

You tell me. Do these sound like people who think that the KJV is only the best translation? Or do they sound like people who believe that the KJV is God breathed and inspired.

[harvey1]

...in the English language... We do not mean that the English language translators were inspired as they translated.... We believe the Masoretic Hebrew text and the Textus Receptus Koine Greek text to be the inspired, preserved Word of God in the Hebrew and Koine Greek languages.[...]... We believe that the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts which underlie the King James Version (the Masoretic text of the Old Testament and the Textus Receptus of the New Testament) are the preserved words of God. Furthermore, we believe that the King James Version of the Bible is God's preserved word in English... that the Masoretic Text, Tex[t]us Receptus, and King James Bible are the preserved Word of God in their respective languages. [...] Landmark Baptist College believes that the King James Bible is God's preserved Word in the English language. Landmark Baptist College believes that the Textus Receptus is God's preserved New Testament in the Greek language. [...]... We believe God has kept that promise by preserving His infallible Word in the traditional Hebrew and Greek manuscripts and that the Authorized Version (KJV) is an accurate English translation of the preserved Word of God. [...] We also believe that the King James version of the Bible is the divinely preserved Word of God for the English-speaking people ... [...]... We believe the King James Version is the preserved Word of God for the English-speaking people and is the only acceptable translation to be used in this college by faculty or students [...]... We believe that the Word of God has been divinely preserved in the King James Version of the Bible for English speaking people. [...] We believe that the Received Text (Textus Receptus) carries the full authority of the original autographs which includes the Kings James Version and translations in other languages that are accurately translated from the Received Text [...]... We believe the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be the plenary and verbally inspired Word of God, the supreme and final authority for faith and life, inerrant in the original writings... [...]... The Holy Scriptures -- the Bible, the Scriptures of the Old Testament and the New Testament, preserved for us in the Masoretic text (Old Testament) Textus Receptus (New Testament)...

(emphasis mine.)

You tell me. Do these sound like people who think that the KJV is only the best translation? Or do they sound like people who believe that the KJV is God breathed and inspired.

They sound like people who accept the original text as inspired and consider the KJV to be an overall accurate translation of that original text. Notice, however, that this is far different than what this individual stated:

There's no commas in the original text.

Doesn't matter. KJV is the infallible word of God, and if it has a comma so we can understand the original context, then it has a comma.

I don't think any of these churches would accept this issue. They would face huge discrepancies in their fundamentalist interpretations of the scriptures by insisting that there's not one error in the KJV. I think most fundamentalist Christians are aware of this.

[micatala]

We probably should not turn this into a thread debating the views of one particular forum member, nor how sincerely he or she holds the views they espouse on the forum.

Some I have talked to on this issue certainly acknowledge that the original languages contain the most accurate text, but that the Holy Spirit did 'intervene' in the translation of the KJV to the effect of making it the best English translation, and infallible in the usual sense that fundamentalist interpreters mean.

[Scrotum]

We probably should not turn this into a thread debating the views of one particular forum member, nor how sincerely he or she holds the views they espouse on the forum.

Some I have talked to on this issue certainly acknowledge that the original languages contain the most accurate text, but that the Holy Spirit did 'intervene' in the translation of the KJV to the effect of making it the best English translation, and infallible in the usual sense that fundamentalist interpreters mean.

But if you speak to scholars about the subject, they are very clear that almost all, including KJV translation is very different from the ´original´. Especially when it comes to plural and singulars, as well as names.

Anyway, Did God not Speak American English? Indeed he did, Why do you think the first people where called ADAM and EVE? Very typical american names, OBVIOUS, prove you all wrong, GOD IS AMERICAN like Big is saying.

You think he is an illegal immigrant protected by the Bush´s new immigrant laws? Or is he using trickery to avoid the INS?

[harvey1]

...but that the Holy Spirit did 'intervene' in the translation of the KJV to the effect of making it the best English translation, and infallible in the usual sense that fundamentalist interpreters mean.

Do you think they would reject looking at the Greek or Hebrew for a better understanding or even correction to what is implied in the KJV? I say "good luck" in finding such a fundamentalist. I've never encountered such a real person.

[theleftone]

Christians who make this claim are simply making an arbitrary claim, based on tradition and their own biases. There is no justification within scripture for the idea of 'one authorized translation.'

Definitely agree. I speak from experience of dealing with many who have held this view.

The Textus Receptus upon which it is based is far from the best Greek translation.

Just a point of correction here, the Textus Receptus is a text compiled from the available manuscripts of the time. It covers only the New Testament, hence is unlikely to be a translation in and of itself. Unless, of course, one wants to make the argument that the NT was written in Aramaic. However, the TR text does include translations (i.e., some Aramaic phrases, and citations of OT writings -- be they original translations or citations from the Septuagint).

While I'm going out on a limb here because of relative ignorance of Biblical languages, I agree with Erhman. And he's not a lone scholarly voice in this viewpoint.

[theleftone]

In my experience there are a number of different positions on this issue. I'll try and outline what I've come across.

1. KJV Best. This group usually argues the KJV is the best translation of the best texts, and as such should be the only authoritative work to be used within churches. Known proponents: ?.

2. KJV Only (English). This group accepts the KJV as the only true Bible for English speakers. They do not consider other English translations to be the Bible. They view them as having half truths or a portion of the truth, but ultimately deceptive works. Hence, their terms "per-version" of modern translations. Some within this group consider the KJV to be an improvement upon the original manuscripts, and sometimes the original autographs. Some will also accept the idea that God inspired the translation of the KJV in much the same way he inspired the original autographs.

3. KJV Only. This group accepts the KJV is the only true Bible. All other translations, manuscripts, texts, etc. have been superseded by the KJV. They often accept the KJV is an improvement on the older translations and/or manuscripts. They have been known to promote this ideology through teaching English so the non-native English speakers can have "the Bible" to read. Known proponents: .

Of course, these are rough categories, but describe the basic stances I've come across. Here are some proponents of the various positions.

1. Peter Ruckman
2. Donald Waite
3. David Cloud
4. Will Kinney
5. Gail Riplinger

[theleftone]

Do you think they would reject looking at the Greek or Hebrew for a better understanding or even correction to what is implied in the KJV? I say "good luck" in finding such a fundamentalist. I've never encountered such a real person.

Yes. Peter Ruckman believes the KJV to be an improvement over the Greek text. For him the KJV is Scripture in the manner that the original autographs are Scripture. It's not simply a translation for him.

Update: David Cloud addresses Ruckman's musings.

[theleftone]

But if you speak to scholars about the subject, they are very clear that almost all, including KJV translation is very different from the ´original´. Especially when it comes to plural and singulars, as well as names.

For most in the KJV camp, modern scholarship is "corrupt." Hence, their conclusions are erroneous. They ascribe most modern scholars with the derogatory term "Bible corrector." They then tag themselves as "Bible believers" to place their position in opposition to modern scholarship and the majority of Christianity today.

Anyway, Did God not Speak American English? Indeed he did, Why do you think the first people where called ADAM and EVE? Very typical american names, OBVIOUS, prove you all wrong, GOD IS AMERICAN like Big is saying.

"Adam" and "Eve" are transliterations of Hebrew words.