Gun Control

jgh7 · Post by **jgh7** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:43 pm

Gun control in America is a very hot topic right now. Do religious views factor at all into swaying someone to be for or against gun control?

I'm also just plain interested in the topic of gun control and whether it's right or wrong. I know this site is meant for topics to be relating back to religion, but for this topic in addition to religious views I'd also just like to know people's general opinions of gun control.

DanieltheDragon · Post by **DanieltheDragon** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:26 pm

puddleglum wrote: [Replying to post 8 by Hamsaka]

Wasn't Jesus advising his disciples before sending them out to teach his message, knowing they would be in danger along the way? It seems to specific to the situation he was sending his disciples into for guns to be a Biblical issue.
He was addressing a specific situation but his command does reveal a general moral truth; it is permissible to own weapons for protection.

Under which situation is it permissible to defend oneself though?

Clearly if your being mugged or robbed your supposed to give the mugger/robber your belongings.

If you are being improperly arrested your not to resist?

What situation is using a gun permissible?

bluethread · Post by **bluethread** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:44 pm

DanieltheDragon wrote:
puddleglum wrote: [Replying to post 8 by Hamsaka]

Wasn't Jesus advising his disciples before sending them out to teach his message, knowing they would be in danger along the way? It seems to specific to the situation he was sending his disciples into for guns to be a Biblical issue.
He was addressing a specific situation but his command does reveal a general moral truth; it is permissible to own weapons for protection.

Under which situation is it permissible to defend oneself though?

Clearly if your being mugged or robbed your supposed to give the mugger/robber your belongings.

If you are being improperly arrested your not to resist?

What situation is using a gun permissible?

When someone else is being mugged or being subjected to tyranny. It is not about pacifism, it is about self-centeredness.

DanieltheDragon · Post by **DanieltheDragon** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:59 pm

[Replying to post 12 by bluethread]

Jesus told peter to step down when he was experiencing tyranny. Specifically which verse urges Christians to defend others with violence? and under which circumstances?

puddleglum · Post by **puddleglum** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:10 am

DanieltheDragon wrote: [Replying to post 12 by bluethread]

Jesus told peter to step down when he was experiencing tyranny. Specifically which verse urges Christians to defend others with violence? and under which circumstances?

The command to love your neighbor as yourself. You must protect those who are in danger when it is in your power to do so and you must use violence when that is the only means that will be effective.

bluethread · Post by **bluethread** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:00 pm

puddleglum wrote:
DanieltheDragon wrote: [Replying to post 12 by bluethread]

Jesus told peter to step down when he was experiencing tyranny. Specifically which verse urges Christians to defend others with violence? and under which circumstances?
The command to love your neighbor as yourself. You must protect those who are in danger when it is in your power to do so and you must use violence when that is the only means that will be effective.

Also, Yeshua's admonition to Peter was circumstantial. It was not a statement of principle.

DanieltheDragon · Post by **DanieltheDragon** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:39 pm

[Replying to post 15 by bluethread]

So where is the statement of principle? To act with violence to those who threaten others with tyranny?

DanieltheDragon · Post by **DanieltheDragon** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:42 pm

puddleglum wrote:
DanieltheDragon wrote: [Replying to post 12 by bluethread]

Jesus told peter to step down when he was experiencing tyranny. Specifically which verse urges Christians to defend others with violence? and under which circumstances?
The command to love your neighbor as yourself. You must protect those who are in danger when it is in your power to do so and you must use violence when that is the only means that will be effective.

I just want to point out the highlighted red is just your opinion and is not found in the verse to love neighbors as you love yourself. In fact the highlighted red is divorced from the preceding statement. Those words are not found in the gospel are they? You just sort of made your own addendum to another verse.

corey.1217 · Post by **corey.1217** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:37 pm

Hamsaka wrote:
puddleglum wrote: Gun control is a Biblical issue.

And he said to them, â€œWhen I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?â€�

They said, â€œNothing.â€�

He said to them, â€œBut now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one. For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: â€˜And he was numbered with the transgressors.â€™ For what is written about me has its fulfillment.â€�
(Luke 22:35-37 ESV)
Jesus taught that it is permissible to own weapons for self defense. There should be restrictions to keep criminals and children from obtaining guns and some weapons such as machine guns should be banned but a law abiding citizen should be able to legally obtain weapons so he can protect himself.
Wasn't Jesus advising his disciples before sending them out to teach his message, knowing they would be in danger along the way? It seems to specific to the situation he was sending his disciples into for guns to be a Biblical issue. I guess if you are looking for scriptural support, you could find it in nearly every book or letter.

Considering Jesus' much more pacifist Sermon on the Mount, I'd think assuming Jesus commanding his followers in general to be armed is quite a stretch. Besides, no one here can rightfully claim to know if Jesus meant for gun enthusiasts to take their direction from his instructions to his disciples. I can see it, but it looks awfully convenient for the gun enthusiast's purposes . . .

I own two hand guns and would rather keep them, exactly for those 'just in case' reasons most people own hand guns, rather than flatter myself that my God makes guns a 'Biblical issue'.

We are to die in His name freely. This is not instructing us to lay down for an earthly fool in the name of cultural crime.

bluethread · Post by **bluethread** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:16 pm

DanieltheDragon wrote: [Replying to post 15 by bluethread]

So where is the statement of principle? To act with violence to those who threaten others with tyranny?

I did not say that there was a direct command to use violence. However, the principle of righteous violence is well established, there is the avenger of blood in the case of manslaughter and Adonai's people defending themselves against the followers of Haman are two examples that come to mind. Yeshua's statements were limited to self defense. If one wishes to push the point, one would also have to say that any legal action is also unacceptable, since Yeshua talks about taking every action one can take to avoid that also. If one can not use violence or the courts, how is one supposed to (Is. 1:17) "(s)eek justice, relieve the oppressed, defend orphans, plead for the widow"?

puddleglum · Post by **puddleglum** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:08 am

DanieltheDragon wrote:
puddleglum wrote:
DanieltheDragon wrote: [Replying to post 12 by bluethread]

Jesus told peter to step down when he was experiencing tyranny. Specifically which verse urges Christians to defend others with violence? and under which circumstances?
The command to love your neighbor as yourself. You must protect those who are in danger when it is in your power to do so and you must use violence when that is the only means that will be effective.

I just want to point out the highlighted red is just your opinion and is not found in the verse to love neighbors as you love yourself. In fact the highlighted red is divorced from the preceding statement. Those words are not found in the gospel are they? You just sort of made your own addendum to another verse.

Those exact words are not found in the Bible but they do express a truth that is in the Bible. If you were in danger you would try to protect yourself; if you see someone else in danger and love him as you love himself you must try to protect him.

They are also an application of the Golden Rule. If you were in danger and someone had the power to rescue you wouldn't you want him to do so?