Placing Human-Life Value on an Embryo. Is it logical?

[jgh7]

Many Christians take the stance that from the moment of conception an embryo/zygote/whatever has become a human life and has "human life value". Aborting it would be wrong because its "human life value" outweighs the issues of the woman who has to go through the pregnancy.

Is this logical? Can you be an atheist and still place "human life value" on an embryo? Can you be an atheist and be pro-life?

(pro-life is the politically neutral term for being against abortion in all or most cases).

[JP Cusick]

Many Christians take the stance that from the moment of conception an embryo/zygote/whatever has become a human life and has "human life value". Aborting it would be wrong because its "human life value" outweighs the issues of the woman who has to go through the pregnancy.

Is this logical? Can you be an atheist and still place "human life value" on an embryo? Can you be an atheist and be pro-life?

I certainly would hope that Atheist can be against the ugly abortion industry, and there is no requirement for any person to be against evil.

The question of whether the embryo or zygote is a human life is comparable to other historical circumstances, as like the Nazis saw the Jews as not human, and white people have viewed African people as not human, and when one Country massively bombs another Country then that is effectively making them as nonhuman and deserving of death without justification.

There are different concepts - that an embryo/zygote is not intelligent enough to be human, or not mature enough to be human, or not worthy of being human, or that the embryo/zygote is the property of the mother and so the mother can dispose of her property as she chooses.

Surely even an Atheist can say "no" to any of that.

My own biggest dispute is against the Doctor or Abortion provider because they are the true murderers.

The 2 parents can easily feel pressured to get an abortion for many real reasons, and I can sympathize with that and I say the 2 parents really need support to resist the pressure, but the Abortion provider is not under any pressure as they murder babies with their cold disregard for human life.

[McCulloch]

My own biggest dispute is against the Doctor or Abortion provider because they are the true murderers.

Really? Jacob and Tammy bring their infant to an evil doctor. "She is too much for us to take care of. We would like to pay you to kill her." If a zygote is morally equivalent to an infant, who would you say is the true murderer? The person who hires a hitman is just as guilty as the hitman himself. Abortion providers do not recruit clients. Clients come to them.
If you are going to take the pro-life anti-abortion stance, at least be consistent.

[JP Cusick]

My own biggest dispute is against the Doctor or Abortion provider because they are the true murderers.

Really? Jacob and Tammy bring their infant to an evil doctor. "She is too much for us to take care of. We would like to pay you to kill her." If a zygote is morally equivalent to an infant, who would you say is the true murderer? The person who hires a hitman is just as guilty as the hitman himself. Abortion providers do not recruit clients. Clients come to them.
If you are going to take the pro-life anti-abortion stance, at least be consistent.

In this world, but sticking with the USA, then people are punished by various means for having a baby instead of falling under the pressure to get an abortion.

As in the Custody laws will declare one parent as an outcast, and then the Child Support laws will treat the outcast parent as a criminal, and even the Custodial parent is discouraged from reconciling with the child(ren)'s other parent.

So too we have social pressure for the parents to work in servitude of the greedy Capitalist system whereby having a baby interferes.

Both parents are trampled under by the pressure of the evil system will by making every child expensive to care for, and so the parents are punished in assorted ways of degradation and poverty if they have their child, but not if they accept their baby being murdered by abortion, and even free abortion to any who can not afford the cost.

The Abortion industry really just targets the poor and working class, while the rich are pressured more by social standing and public shame.

So the 2 parents do not have a free choice because there is huge pressure to murder their baby, and severe punishments if they do not let their baby be murdered by abortion.

But the so called Doctor or Abortion provider is not under any pressure as they have motivation in that the more babies they murder then the more money they make, and they get the high praise from the ruling class for doing the dirty deeds without a mess or a fuss.

To blame the parents instead of the Abortionist is like blaming the drug user but not the drug pusher, or blame the drunkard but not the Distillery, to blame the cigarette smoker but not the tobacco industry, to blame the slave but not the slave-master.

[Bust Nak]

[Replying to post 13 by JP Cusick]

Wait, did you just try to justify hiring a hitman for murder, as long as the victim is a financial burden on the person doing the hiring?

[KenRU]

Is this logical? Can you be an atheist and still place "human life value" on an embryo? Can you be an atheist and be pro-life?

A few probably are pro life.
Ones who care for and love babies.
MB

I am pro choice, does this mean I don't care for and love babies?

[JP Cusick]

Wait, did you just try to justify hiring a hitman for murder, as long as the victim is a financial burden on the person doing the hiring?

That is what the Abortions industry does, and it is what the Abortions laws do, and that is what the Supreme Court decided in the Roe v Wade case.

I do declare that reality yes - and I denounce it - and in some cases I do sympathize - but I do not justify it.

The abortion Doctor or abortion provider is indeed a legalized "hit-man" as a hired assassin to murder babies, and the victims are not just the babies, because both the 2 parents are also victims, as are their extended families, and so is society hurt by having those abortion providers legalized.

The laws making abortions as legal does not in any way justify the abortion providers who commit murder in that horrific way.



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I am pro choice, does this mean I don't care for and love babies?

What that really shows is that you do not understand the concept of "love" nor the concept of "caring" because murdering babies by the abortion industry is not love nor is it properly caring for the betterment of anyone.

As in saying = We love you baby and that is why we are going to crush out your life and flush your body down a drain. ~ Well no, that is not caring and it is not love.

I get in disputes like this about me being vegetarian, because people will say that they love chicken or they love animals, and so I have to explain to them about their misguided view of love, because if they loved the chicken then they would not eat the chicken because that is not loving care - so the truth is that they do not love chicken they simply love to eat the chicken, so they view love as a selfish and self serving kind of love.

So too being pro-choice does not mean that it is loving babies, because love does not include murdering those we love.

[Bust Nak]

I do declare that reality yes - and I denounce it - and in some cases I do sympathize - but I do not justify it.

The abortion Doctor or abortion provider is indeed a legalized "hit-man" as a hired assassin to murder babies, and the victims are not just the babies, because both the 2 parents are also victims, as are their extended families, and so is society hurt by having those abortion providers legalized.

Calling the parents victims does not sound like you are merely sympathizing with them. Victim is not a term I would use to label someone when I want to denounce the action of that person.

The laws making abortions as legal does not in any way justify the abortion providers who commit murder in that horrific way.

Technically, the law defines what is and isn't murder. Don't mistake slayings that you disapprove of with slayings that are illegal.

[KenRU]

I am pro choice, does this mean I don't care for and love babies?

What that really shows is that you do not understand the concept of "love" nor the concept of "caring" because murdering babies by the abortion industry is not love nor is it properly caring for the betterment of anyone.

You may want to inaccurately equate a multicellular zygote as a baby, but not everyone defines that as a baby. Aborting a zygote is not the same thing as killing a baby.

As for me not understanding the concept of love, what an inflammatory thing to say. You want to equate extremes here, ok, I say the fact that you want to legally mandate a woman carry her rapist’s baby to term shows that you have no concept or understanding of what “love� actually means. Especially when we have the technology to abort the pregnancy at the earliest of stages.

Only fair, right?

As in saying = We love you baby and that is why we are going to crush out your life and flush your body down a drain. ~ Well no, that is not caring and it is not love.

As in saying, “we love you lady but we are still going to require that you carry your rapist’s child to term, endure all of the hardships that accompany a pregnancy, deal with the multiple psychological issues that normally come with a pregnancy (not to mention the ones that come with being violently raped) and then go through the fun-filled multi-hour labor that is inevitable. But we love you.�

Well, no, that is not what love is.

I get in disputes like this about me being vegetarian, because people will say that they love chicken or they love animals, and so I have to explain to them about their misguided view of love, because if they loved the chicken then they would not eat the chicken because that is not loving care - so the truth is that they do not love chicken they simply love to eat the chicken, so they view love as a selfish and self serving kind of love.

So too being pro-choice does not mean that it is loving babies, because love does not include murdering those we love.

More accurately, you love what is a potential baby. Something like 75% or more of pregnancies do not even come to term.

Pro-choice can mean that one doe love babies. I am proof of that. Acknowledging that not everyone has the same options in life, and that life can be cruel necessitating difficult choices be allowed does not preclude one from loving babies.

Prochoice does not mean one supports late term abortions, for example.

[JP Cusick]

Calling the parents victims does not sound like you are merely sympathizing with them. Victim is not a term I would use to label someone when I want to denounce the action of that person.

No, calling the parents as victims is indeed sympathizing with the parents.

I do not denounce the parents because our society pressures the parents and the actual murder is done by the abortion providers.

That does not mean the parents are completely innocent, because the parents did not have a free-will choice, so their baby gets murdered and the parents are punished by that awful reality.

I have sorrow and sympathy and pity for the parents (both the parents) because they lost their baby.

Technically, the law defines what is and isn't murder. Don't mistake slayings that you disapprove of with slayings that are illegal.

I do make the distinction that abortions are legalized murders, and those laws are morally bankrupt.

It is reprehensible to hide immorality behind technicalities.



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Pro-choice ... does not preclude one from loving babies.

It is important to understand that abortions are a policy of government to slow down the over population of undesirable people.

In China they made the infamous "one-child" policy, and in the USA we created the abortion industry.

In China they love the one baby, but they do not love any second baby.

In the USA we love the babies born into rich families, but they prefer an abortion primarily for poorer people and particularly for the black babies.

So you say pro-choice is loving of those babies that get born, and that is fine, but to murder the other babies is not fine and it is not love.

[Bust Nak]

No, calling the parents as victims is indeed sympathizing with the parents.

I do not denounce the parents because our society pressures the parents and the actual murder is done by the abortion providers.

Then the same accusation from before stands: You do not denounce someone who is hiring a hitman to murder someone, when a) The hirer is under financial pressure and b) the actual murder is done by the hitman.

That does not mean the parents are completely innocent, because the parents did not have a free-will choice, so their baby gets murdered and the parents are punished by that awful reality.

Do not have a free-will choice you say, who made the choice to walk through the doors of the abortion clinic?

I do make the distinction that abortions are legalized murders, and those laws are morally bankrupt.

The point is if it is legalized then it is not technically murder. If you don't want to be buried by arguments over technicalities, then don't start one by bringing up the legality in the first place.