Is matter an illusion?

[Bro Dave]

Here is a link to the source article. I seems to bring a lot of religion and philosophy together.

http://www.science-spirit.org/article_d ... cle_id=126

Bro Dave

[QED]

As for matter being an illusion I expect is is. There is mounting evidence (mostly from the physics of black holes) that the material universe we experience is a form of holographic projection from a two-dimensional plane. I'm sure that there are no shortage of surprises waiting for us out there, but what does that tell us about the universe? I'd say it shows us how wrong our preconceived notions generally are and how much simpler everything might turn out to be at the most fundamental level.

[CJK]

Take the Theory of General Relativity; mass is extremely dense energy moving at a slow pace.

This alone is enough for myself to conclude matter is an illusion. But then again, I could be wrong, conciousness itself may as well be an illusion.

I'd say it shows us how wrong our preconceived notions generally are and how much simpler everything might turn out to be at the most fundamental level.

Thank you, QED, for those words of wisdom. Often while contemplating, I always get a feeling the answer is right under my nose.

[McCulloch]

Take the Theory of General Relativity; mass is extremely dense energy moving at a slow pace.

This alone is enough for myself to conclude matter is an illusion.

Only if energy is an illusion.

[CJK]

Only if energy is an illusion.

I suppose I was expecting one would make that inference.

I'll try to be a little more specific.

[Curious]

Research with people who had brain injuries indicates that the brain and the mind are not the same things. The reality of the human mind seems to have no material basis. ...

I am not aware of this research, in fact I have seen research which points in the exact opposite direction. Please provide some details, links if possible, to the research to which you are referring.

I'm still waiting for a vector to this alledged research. As there is no shortage of contradictory evidence regarding the one-to-one mapping between material damage and resulting mental damage, the inescapable conclusion would seem to be that the claim is sheer bluster.

Isn't it obvious that brain and mind are not the same thing? The brain is the actual hardware and the mind is a function of this. I suppose you could call it the main function which all other functions must pass to hold any significance. The very fact that the introduction of certain chemicals into the body affects the direction and balance of the mind shows almost categorically that the mind is directly related to the brain. The often bizarre behaviour of "ourselves" in dreams along with our readiness to accept as truth the most absurd scenarios (when much of the logical processing is bypassed) surely gives some inkling as to the importance of the brain in relation to the mind.

[Curious]

Take the Theory of General Relativity; mass is extremely dense energy moving at a slow pace.

This alone is enough for myself to conclude matter is an illusion. But then again, I could be wrong, conciousness itself may as well be an illusion.

I'd say it shows us how wrong our preconceived notions generally are and how much simpler everything might turn out to be at the most fundamental level.

Thank you, QED, for those words of wisdom. Often while contemplating, I always get a feeling the answer is right under my nose.

Try not to think about it too hard! If you realise that it is an illusion and it is, you might just think yourself out of existence.

[Bart007]

Here is a link to the source article. I seems to bring a lot of religion and philosophy together.

http://www.science-spirit.org/article_d ... cle_id=126

Bro Dave

My personal belief is that my body is simply clothing that I/m wearing. I beleive that I'm spirit and that the brain is an interface by which I can interact with my body.

An experiment on rats where they zap the rats with electricity if they tried to put a particular opening. The rats stopped trying to go out that passage, even long after the the electric charge was turned off. Even if food was place there they did not try to get it. I sometimes think there are places we can go but we don't because we percieve a barrier that in reality, does not exist.

Hinduism teaches that all that we percieve is an illusion.

Of course, I'm sure we all saw the Matrix.

[McCulloch]

My personal belief is that my body is simply clothing that I/m wearing. I beleive that I'm spirit and that the brain is an interface by which I can interact with my body.

Others have expressed that opinion. No one has shown that our spirits, if they exist, have any continuation without the body that housed them. Barring any new evidence, the only conclusion that can be reached objectively is that our perception of self is a result of our own brain activity. We had no existence before and will have no existence after brain functioning.

I sometimes think there are places we can go but we don't because we percieve a barrier that in reality, does not exist. Hinduism teaches that all that we percieve is an illusion.

Interesting speculations. Let us know when there are any hard facts supporting these.

Of course, I'm sure we all saw the Matrix.

Pure fantasy.

[DrProctopus]

I will take up the side of arguing continuity consciousness...

For starters, lettuce examine consciousness during periods of cardiac arrest.

Here is an interesting article from the IANDS site:

http://iands.org/research/vanLommel/vanLommel4.php


here is a quote from that article:

om these studies we know that in our prospective study1 as well as in the other studies2,3 of patients who have been clinically dead (VF on the ECG), total lack of electric activity of the cortex of the brain (flat EEG) must have been the only possibility, but also the abolition of brain-stem activity, such as the loss of the corneal reflex, fixed and dilated pupils, and the loss of the gag reflex, is a clinical finding in those patients. However, patients with an NDE can report a clear consciousness, in which cognitive functioning, emotion, sense of identity, and memory from early childhood was possible, as well as perception from a position out and above their “dead” body. Because of the occasional and verifiable out-of-body experiences, like the one involving the dentures in our study,1 we know that the NDE must happen during the period of unconsciousness, and not in the first or last seconds of this period.

That paragraph does not sum everything up, so I will explain a little further...

Some people have a cardiac arrest (meaning the heart stops beating), and before long they have complete cessation of blood flow, followed by complete cessation of measurable brain activity.

However, during this period, they are floating above their body observing what is happening to them, and are able to provide verifyable details.

This is evidence of consciousness functioning in way that is not 1-to-1 mapping with brain activity.

If you read the article on that site, you will see it is actually as series of articles. The last web page in that series of articles is where you will find their references.

[ST88]

Some people have a cardiac arrest (meaning the heart stops beating), and before long they have complete cessation of blood flow, followed by complete cessation of measurable brain activity.

However, during this period, they are floating above their body observing what is happening to them, and are able to provide verifyable details.

This is evidence of consciousness functioning in way that is not 1-to-1 mapping with brain activity.

It would be except for the fact that this is a known function of the brain. When the angular gyrus is stimulated, out of body experiences are triggered. Why the brain does this is anyone's guess. But NDEs are not evidence for a separate soul.