Questions for the LDS

[southern cross]

Mormons (if this term offends, please let me know) believe that all of us, as souls, chose to be born on earth and experience the trials and tribulations associated with that decision.
Is this true?
Where were our souls when this question was posed?
Was this question posed by god?
Were we in the presence of god at the time?
Was there an alternative?
Are all unborn souls still residing wherever this was?
Is there a finite number of souls, or are more being created?
Is it only Mormons who achieve heaven?
Thank you in advance.

[JohnPaul]

dianaiad wrote:

Then you have to, pretty much, spit in His eye. You have to say, in essence...yeah, yeah, I know You are real, I know everything you are teaching is true, and I don't want any part of it, bye bye. Then you head the other direction.

I know you don't intend to, but you make that "outer darkness" sound pretty good. Is it like a new frontier, where a pioneer can escape from the petty restraints of civilization, build a home and a new world to suit himself? Maybe even declare independence from the tyrannical old king?

[scourge99]

Is it only Mormons who achieve heaven?
Thank you in advance.

Mormons believe in different levels of heaven. If you were a good Mormon during your life then you get the highest level of heaven where you become godlike.

Other levels of heaven are for non mormons but supposedly even these levels of heaven are unimaginable better than the best earthly life has to offer.

Mormons believe that after you die you are taught and shown the truth of their beliefs. Only if you reject it in both your life and afterlife are you consigned to "the outer darkness" which is some type of vague but unpleasant place. Its quite difficult to get into.

Not bad. Until that last paragraph. THAT'S not what gets you confined to 'outer darkness,' In order to qualify (and you are correct, it ain't easy to do) you have to know...as in 'absolute knowledge' the way you know that the bridge just held you up, that God is, and that the Holy Ghost is 'telling you true."

Then you have to, pretty much, spit in His eye. You have to say, in essence...yeah, yeah, I know You are real, I know everything you are teaching is true, and I don't want any part of it, bye bye. Then you head the other direction.

Nobody PUTS you there. You go there all by yourself because you have chosen to go there. You can, I imagine, figure out that this wouldn't happen very often.

Well that is what I meant but your response is a bit more clear.

[Nickman]

Is it only Mormons who achieve heaven?
Thank you in advance.

Mormons believe in different levels of heaven. If you were a good Mormon during your life then you get the highest level of heaven where you become godlike.

Other levels of heaven are for non mormons but supposedly even these levels of heaven are unimaginable better than the best earthly life has to offer.

Mormons believe that after you die you are taught and shown the truth of their beliefs. Only if you reject it in both your life and afterlife are you consigned to "the outer darkness" which is some type of vague but unpleasant place. Its quite difficult to get into.

Not bad. Until that last paragraph. THAT'S not what gets you confined to 'outer darkness,' In order to qualify (and you are correct, it ain't easy to do) you have to know...as in 'absolute knowledge' the way you know that the bridge just held you up, that God is, and that the Holy Ghost is 'telling you true."

Then you have to, pretty much, spit in His eye. You have to say, in essence...yeah, yeah, I know You are real, I know everything you are teaching is true, and I don't want any part of it, bye bye. Then you head the other direction.

Nobody PUTS you there. You go there all by yourself because you have chosen to go there. You can, I imagine, figure out that this wouldn't happen very often.


Don't forget to ask about (1) the magic underwear and (2)the secret hand signs so you can get into heaven. (they aren't allowed to talk about the hand signs).

[/quote]
Tell me, is praying to know if something is true the correct way to attain Absolute Knowledge? I know a bunch of ex-mormons (I live in Utah) who all have come to the same conclusion once they started looking for real tangible evidence and not a "burning of the bosom". The Mormon idea that one can find out if the Book of Mormon is true, Jesus is real, Joseph Smith was a prophet is based on emotional appeal. If you feel good about it then that is a sign of its truthfullness, but this is a false assumption. You can gain an emotional attachment to these ideas but this will never tell you if they are true. Can a person pray whether or not Krishna or Odin are the real god's and if they feel good about it and God "tells them", does that mean it is true? I am sure you would say no, but Ill let you speak for yourself.

[scourge99]

Is it only Mormons who achieve heaven?
Thank you in advance.

Mormons believe in different levels of heaven. If you were a good Mormon during your life then you get the highest level of heaven where you become godlike.

Other levels of heaven are for non mormons but supposedly even these levels of heaven are unimaginable better than the best earthly life has to offer.

Mormons believe that after you die you are taught and shown the truth of their beliefs. Only if you reject it in both your life and afterlife are you consigned to "the outer darkness" which is some type of vague but unpleasant place. Its quite difficult to get into.

Not bad. Until that last paragraph. THAT'S not what gets you confined to 'outer darkness,' In order to qualify (and you are correct, it ain't easy to do) you have to know...as in 'absolute knowledge' the way you know that the bridge just held you up, that God is, and that the Holy Ghost is 'telling you true."

Then you have to, pretty much, spit in His eye. You have to say, in essence...yeah, yeah, I know You are real, I know everything you are teaching is true, and I don't want any part of it, bye bye. Then you head the other direction.

Nobody PUTS you there. You go there all by yourself because you have chosen to go there. You can, I imagine, figure out that this wouldn't happen very often.

Tell me, is praying to know if something is true the correct way to attain Absolute Knowledge? I know a bunch of ex-mormons (I live in Utah) who all have come to the same conclusion once they started looking for real tangible evidence and not a "burning of the bosom". The Mormon idea that one can find out if the Book of Mormon is true, Jesus is real, Joseph Smith was a prophet is based on emotional appeal. If you feel good about it then that is a sign of its truthfullness, but this is a false assumption. You can gain an emotional attachment to these ideas but this will never tell you if they are true. Can a person pray whether or not Krishna or Odin are the real god's and if they feel good about it and God "tells them", does that mean it is true? I am sure you would say no, but Ill let you speak for yourself.

That is one of the tricks missionaries are taught. That feelings are a sign of the indwelling of the holy spirit and truth.

Its a fallacious emotional appeal that is used extensively by missionaries. Its also deceptive because its far more effective when you are in a face to face discussion with a person and don't have the luxury of carefully analyzing the situation and claims objectively.

You'll notice that there are a lot of similarities in tactics amongst salesman and missionaries. And that's not a coincidence.

[dianaiad]

Tell me, is praying to know if something is true the correct way to attain Absolute Knowledge?

No.

But it's a beginning.

Absolute knowledge is not the same thing. You used to be a mormon. You know better than this.

I know a bunch of ex-mormons (I live in Utah) who all have come to the same conclusion once they started looking for real tangible evidence and not a "burning of the bosom". The Mormon idea that one can find out if the Book of Mormon is true, Jesus is real, Joseph Smith was a prophet is based on emotional appeal. If you feel good about it then that is a sign of its truthfullness, but this is a false assumption. You can gain an emotional attachment to these ideas but this will never tell you if they are true. Can a person pray whether or not Krishna or Odin are the real god's and if they feel good about it and God "tells them", does that mean it is true? I am sure you would say no, but Ill let you speak for yourself.

That's good, because the answer is yes. You can. You just have to be careful that you are getting the confirmation of the truth, not all the stuff around it.

For instance, if you are asking "Are you there, God?" and get a positive answer, it doesn't matter much if you are praying in a Hindu Temple, a Catholic church or anywhere else; if God exists, what's He going to say, 'no?"

What happens, I believe, is something similar to listening to a fairy story; Cinderella, say....and upon being told that yes, dear, there really ARE pumpkins, deciding that this means everything else in the story is true TOO.

So if I go into a Catholic church and ask if God loves me, and get a positive answer...and of course I would GET a positive answer to that...does that mean that all of Catholicism is 'true?"

Many who have done something similar will say yeah....

You need to know what you are asking, and you need to remember that all belief systems have truth in them. All of them. The trick is to find the one with the MOST truth.

[JohnPaul]

Tell me, is praying to know if something is true the correct way to attain Absolute Knowledge?

No.

But it's a beginning.

Absolute knowledge is not the same thing. You used to be a mormon. You know better than this.

I know a bunch of ex-mormons (I live in Utah) who all have come to the same conclusion once they started looking for real tangible evidence and not a "burning of the bosom". The Mormon idea that one can find out if the Book of Mormon is true, Jesus is real, Joseph Smith was a prophet is based on emotional appeal. If you feel good about it then that is a sign of its truthfullness, but this is a false assumption. You can gain an emotional attachment to these ideas but this will never tell you if they are true. Can a person pray whether or not Krishna or Odin are the real god's and if they feel good about it and God "tells them", does that mean it is true? I am sure you would say no, but Ill let you speak for yourself.

That's good, because the answer is yes. You can. You just have to be careful that you are getting the confirmation of the truth, not all the stuff around it.

For instance, if you are asking "Are you there, God?" and get a positive answer, it doesn't matter much if you are praying in a Hindu Temple, a Catholic church or anywhere else; if God exists, what's He going to say, 'no?"

What happens, I believe, is something similar to listening to a fairy story; Cinderella, say....and upon being told that yes, dear, there really ARE pumpkins, deciding that this means everything else in the story is true TOO.

So if I go into a Catholic church and ask if God loves me, and get a positive answer...and of course I would GET a positive answer to that...does that mean that all of Catholicism is 'true?"

Many who have done something similar will say yeah....

You need to know what you are asking, and you need to remember that all belief systems have truth in them. All of them. The trick is to find the one with the MOST truth.

Wouldn't it be simpler and more effective to use a Ouija Board? Seriously, why not?

[southern cross]

Mormons (if this term offends, please let me know) believe that all of us, as souls, chose to be born on earth and experience the trials and tribulations associated with that decision.
Is this true?

yep.

Where were our souls when this question was posed?

In the 'pre-existence.' We have no clue 'where' that is. With our Father in Heaven, though.

Firstly let me thank you for your reply and apologise for apparently openin a can of pandoras worms on you.
So there are souls who chose not to come to earth and are residing blissfully in heaven still?

Was this question posed by god?

The choice was, yes.

Were we in the presence of god at the time?

If not literally, certainly we knew Who was offering. One of those.

Was there an alternative?[.quote]

Sure. Not coming.

Are all unborn souls still residing wherever this was?

Yep.

Is there a finite number of souls, or are more being created?

Dunno. Probably more. Maybe not.

Is it only Mormons who achieve heaven?

Nope. Oh, everybody in heaven will be "Mormons," of sorts, because, well.....

Admittance to a pool is not determined by whether one is wet before one dives. However, once you jump, you get wet.

It does seem a bit unfair to bar admittance to heaven for something over which one has no control, doesn't it? I believe that one is judged by what one does with the truth one has, not upon whether one has all the truth.

I'll get back to you Diana, upset tummy.

[dianaiad]

dianaiad wrote:

Then you have to, pretty much, spit in His eye. You have to say, in essence...yeah, yeah, I know You are real, I know everything you are teaching is true, and I don't want any part of it, bye bye. Then you head the other direction.

I know you don't intend to, but you make that "outer darkness" sound pretty good. Is it like a new frontier, where a pioneer can escape from the petty restraints of civilization, build a home and a new world to suit himself? Maybe even declare independence from the tyrannical old king?

It is a total and complete separation from God, His Son, and everything about Them. What else it may be is beyond my understanding or knowledge, but that doesn't sound like a good thing.

[dianaiad]

Wouldn't it be simpler and more effective to use a Ouija Board? Seriously, why not?

Simpler?

Sure.

More effective? I've never heard that you needed to do any reading and studying witha ouija board, and at least when you pray, you have some sense of who the question is going to.

But if you want to use a ouija board, don't let me stop you.

[dianaiad]

Firstly let me thank you for your reply and apologise for apparently openin a can of pandoras worms on you.
So there are souls who chose not to come to earth and are residing blissfully in heaven still?

I don't know how blissful they are, but I suppose. Considering what we go through down here, the rewards of coming must be something fairly attractive to those considering the move.

I'll get back to you Diana, upset tummy.

Nothing I wrote, I hope.