What do you think about Sweden?

[LillSnopp]

I would love to hear, and get opinions about Sweden, i would especially encourage any execration and misconceptions, as i am interested in hearing peoples opinions.

Do you know anything about Sweden?
If so, what do you know ?

You have any opinions about Sweden ?
If so, What ?

[LillSnopp]

Well, Spain was the first European country to manufacture paper, and if I don't remember wrong sign language was first developed in Spain. Also, the first modern novel is a Spanish one (Cervantes' "Don Quixote") written 400 years ago. I have to admit that it irritates me when people think that Pablo Picasso was French! One thing we definitely have is first-rate painters (Velázquez, Goya, Picasso, Dalí, Miró...)

"First Novel", thats pretty relative non?

We made a really good SWEDISH movie about Picasso (really good)
( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078084/ ).

Painters, we have Carl Larsson, Anders Zorn, Carl Milles (sculptor i think), cant remember many more.

We where the ones introducing paper money into the world ... You can blame us for capitalism if you tweak that a bit


Greta Garbo, Ingrid Bergman, Max von Sydow, Ingmar Bergman, Emanuel Swedenborg, Raoul Wallenberg, Ingvar Kamprad (owner of IKEA; world richest man)....

Is it not great to learn things about other countries?

[Corvus]

Well, Spain was the first European country to manufacture paper, and if I don't remember wrong sign language was first developed in Spain. Also, the first modern novel is a Spanish one (Cervantes' "Don Quixote") written 400 years ago.

I have heard that too, but don't really understand why. Wasn't Don Quixote a parody of the insipid romances of the time? If I remember right, romance novels were what reduced Don Quixote to his delusional state.

Sangria is nice, though.

As for the Swedes, I know very little about them.

[Dilettante]

Although not everyone agrees (some reserve the distinction for the 18th century English novels) Don Quixote is widely regarded as the first modern novel for many reasons:

1. The characters in Don Quixote grow, mature, evolve, and change as they interact with reality/irreality and the world around them. This didn't happen in heroic romances.

2. In Don Quixote there are many levels and many languages. As Mexican novelist Carlos Fuentes has written: "Characters in classical literature all spoke the same language. Achilles understands Hector; Ulysses can even speak to Polyphemus. But Don Quixote and Sancho speak two different idioms. Why? Because the characters are engaged in what the Spanish critic Claudio Guillén calls "a dialogue of genres".[...] But I believe that Don Quixote really inaugurates what we understand modern fiction to be--a reflection of our presence in the world as problematic beings in an unending history, whose continuity depends on subjecting reality to the imagination."

To me the most remarkable aspect in this interplay is how the novel itself becomes part of the fiction, and Don Quixote and Sancho meet people who have read the first part of the novel and they even visit the printing shop where their adventures have been printed.

P.S.: Sangria is OK, but Spanish wine (Rioja, Ribera de Duero especially) is much better.

[Corvus]

Although not everyone agrees (some reserve the distinction for the 18th century English novels) Don Quixote is widely regarded as the first modern novel for many reasons:

1. The characters in Don Quixote grow, mature, evolve, and change as they interact with reality/irreality and the world around them. This didn't happen in heroic romances.

2. In Don Quixote there are many levels and many languages. As Mexican novelist Carlos Fuentes has written: "Characters in classical literature all spoke the same language. Achilles understands Hector; Ulysses can even speak to Polyphemus. But Don Quixote and Sancho speak two different idioms. Why? Because the characters are engaged in what the Spanish critic Claudio Guillén calls "a dialogue of genres".[...] But I believe that Don Quixote really inaugurates what we understand modern fiction to be--a reflection of our presence in the world as problematic beings in an unending history, whose continuity depends on subjecting reality to the imagination."

To me the most remarkable aspect in this interplay is how the novel itself becomes part of the fiction, and Don Quixote and Sancho meet people who have read the first part of the novel and they even visit the printing shop where their adventures have been printed.

Interesting. To be quite honest, I only read about 1/4 of the book about 3 years ago. At the time it struck me as a fairly flat, episodic book. If I kept at it, though, maybe I would have discovered why it's considered a classic literature.

Wikipedia states something quite interesting about its history:

Different ages have tended to read different things into the novel. When it first came out, it was usually interpreted as a comic novel. After the French Revolution it was popular in part due to its central ethic that individuals can be right while society is quite wrong and disenchanting—not comic at all. In the 19th century it was seen as a social commentary, but no one could easily tell "whose side Cervantes was on". By the 20th century it became clear that it was simply a unique and great work, the first true modern novel.

P.S.: Sangria is OK, but Spanish wine (Rioja, Ribera de Duero especially) is much better.

Never heard of them, but I'll note them down. I'm more into aperitifs and liqueurs than wines. The wines I do prefer tend to be sweet and fruity. Lexia, lambrusco, etc.

[Dilettante]

Corvus wrote:

Interesting. To be quite honest, I only read about 1/4 of the book about 3 years ago. At the time it struck me as a fairly flat, episodic book. If I kept at it, though, maybe I would have discovered why it's considered a classic literature.

It's not an easy book, not even for Spanish people. It's not a book most people read from cover to cover, but for many it's sort of a bedside book they pick up when they feel like it, and re-read throughout their lives. It's really a writer's book. Since you are a novelist or at least an aspiring novelist, Corvus, I think you probably should give it one more try if you have the time. This year marks the 400 anniversary of its publication (1605) and that's probably as good an excuse as any other. The most reader-friendly edition in the original is a recent one by Alfaguara (Spain). If you don't read Spanish, there's an excellent brand new English translation by Elizabeth Grossman which is a lot more readable than previous translations but manages to keep the 17th century atmosphere intact (from what I've heard--I read the original instead, of course).
The "dialogue of genres" can be seen in that Don Quixote represents the epic genre (gone mad because of too much bad literature) and simple-minded, earthy Sancho represents the picaresque genre (indigenous of Spain). The funny thing is that, by the end of the novel, a disillusioned Don Quixote becomes actually more realistic while his original idealism has rubbed off on Sancho.
You're right, many readings of Don Quixote are possible, and perhaps the hallmark of a classic is precisely that it never goes out of date, as readers in different epochs read different things into it. Perhaps I should start a thread on Don Quixote, I am digressing too much here!

I'm more into aperitifs and liqueurs than wines. The wines I do prefer tend to be sweet and fruity. Lexia, lambrusco, etc.

Then maybe you'd like Sherry (Jerez in Spanish) or Manzanilla, both from Andalusia.

[Dilettante]

LillSnopp wrote: "

First Novel", thats pretty relative non?

Well yes, there are no absolutes in literary criticism, I suppose. But there's a wide consensus internationally. The Nobel Institute in Norway declared in 2002 that Don Quixote was the best novel in the history of literature so far.

Greta Garbo, Ingrid Bergman, Max von Sydow, Ingmar Bergman, Emanuel Swedenborg, Raoul Wallenberg, Ingvar Kamprad (owner of IKEA; world richest man)....

Luis Buñuel (surrealist film director), Alejandro Amenábar and Pedro Almodóvar (pop movie makers), Fernando Rey, Antonio Banderas, Javier Bardem, Penelope Cruz (movie stars), Pau Casals (cello player), Miguel Indurain (only cyclist to win five consecutive Tours de France), Fernando Alonso (top Formula 1 pilot), Pau Gasol (NBA basketball player), Alex Corretja, Sergi Bruguera, Arantxa Sánchez Vicario (tennis players), Seve Ballesteros, José María Olazábal (golf players)...etc

Is it not great to learn things about other countries?

You bet it is, I love it!

[LillSnopp]

The Nobel Institute in Norway declared in 2002 that Don Quixote was the best novel in the history of literature so far.

And yes, the Nobel Prize, which is Swedish 8)

[Chem]

Eat your heart out lads! One day a year everybody is Irish (17th March) and we kept the torch lighting during the Dark Ages- Isle of saint and Scholars etc. etc. Beat that if you can!

[foshizzle]

The Nobel Institute in Norway declared in 2002 that Don Quixote was the best novel in the history of literature so far.

And yes, the Nobel Prize, which is Swedish 8)

Does it count as Swedish if he left Sweden at the age of 9, before he made any significant contributions to science?

I must admint, I'm a big fan of Nobel. Without him, the wonderful world of dynamite probably wouldn't exist as it does today.

[foshizzle]

Eat your heart out lads! One day a year everybody is Irish (17th March) and we kept the torch lighting during the Dark Ages- Isle of saint and Scholars etc. etc. Beat that if you can!

We dropped nuclear weapons of heavily populated Japanese cities, instantly killing thousands upon thousands of civilians. Beat that!