Why do I deserve Hell?

[JoshC]

Why, as an atheist, do I deserve burn and rot in hell for eternity?

I'm sixteen an find it disturbing that so many people in the world absolutely believe that when I die this is the eternal punishment I deserve.


Assuming a political party held these views also, I'm sure there would be outrage when they announced that anyone in their country who did not believe in "Yahweh, the one true God" would be thrown into a big fiery pit they had dug. However this is the jealous view the God in the Bible holds and no Christians seem bothered about its ethical implications.

Is this an equal punishment for looking at the evidence presented and making a fair assumption (in my opinion) based on it?

Can anyone justify Hell as a punishment for atheists?

[Tiberius47]

You do not in any way deserve eternal hell.

But, you might choose to be senisitive to the fact that many Jews would appreciate that you not use the Name of G-d in the way that you did. It's nothing to fight about, but it's a point of respect if that is important to you.

I agree, the OP does not deserve hell. No one deserves an eternal punishment.

But your second paragraph is ludicrous. Not use the word "God" because it many Jews might not appreciate it?

What about the fact that many atheists might not appreciate being told to follow what members of other religions think is right?

Those Jews don't want to use the word God? Fine, they don't have to. But don't think for a moment that you can reasonably expect people who don't share your point of view to act how you think. Not unless it is causing you harm.

You speak of the OP respecting Jews who don't like using the word God. But where is your respect for him?

[cnorman18]

You do not in any way deserve eternal hell.

But, you might choose to be senisitive to the fact that many Jews would appreciate that you not use the Name of G-d in the way that you did. It's nothing to fight about, but it's a point of respect if that is important to you.

I agree, the OP does not deserve hell. No one deserves an eternal punishment.

But your second paragraph is ludicrous. Not use the word "God" because it many Jews might not appreciate it?

What about the fact that many atheists might not appreciate being told to follow what members of other religions think is right?

Those Jews don't want to use the word God? Fine, they don't have to. But don't think for a moment that you can reasonably expect people who don't share your point of view to act how you think. Not unless it is causing you harm.

You speak of the OP respecting Jews who don't like using the word God. But where is your respect for him?

It's very clear that Jonah was not speaking of the word "God," but of the Name of God - notice that he capitalized "Name" - and was referring to the word "Yahweh," the casual use of which many Jews do find offensive. I don't; that isn't God's proper name, and the Commandment doesn't refer to either "Yahweh" or to "God." The issue was no doubt confused because of his spelling of the word "God" as "G-d," which many Jews do as a token of respect for the Name, even though it isn't necessary. (I find it a little precious and distracting, and I personally only use "G-d" in personal correspondence with Jews who use that spelling.)

I don't think it's unreasonable to use "Yahweh" to make it clear that one is referring to the God of the OT or the Jews or Hebrews or whatever, but I would avoid it when having a discussion with someone who finds it offensive. The word "God" is not the issue.

[puddleglum]

Everybody, not just athiests, deserves to go to hell. God is holy and won't allow any sin in his presence and since all of us have sinned we certainly don't deserve to spend eternity in Heaven. So what else can he do with us?

One of the Greek words translated as "hell" is "gehenna". This was the name of a valley outside of Jerusalem where the city's garbage was burned up. This is a good illustration of the purpose of hell. God created a perfect universe but he gave some of his creatures free will, meaning that they could choose whether or not to obey him. Some of them, including Satan and Adam, did choose to disobey. This meant that now not everything in the universe was good. God created hell as a moral garbage dump where he could dispose of everything that wasn't good. Satan was the first to sin and the Bible says that hell was created for him and his angels, but because humans have followed him in sinning that is now the fate which we deserve.

We all deserve to go to hell but there is a way we can avoid this fate. God's holiness demands that all sin be punished. But we can escape suffering the punishment if there is a qualified substitute who is willing to bear our punishment for us. Jesus came to earth to be this substitute. He was sinless but he voluntarily allowed himself to be crucified to pay for our sins. Because he was God as well as man his death is enough to provide forgiveness for everyone. In order to receive the forgiveness he offers we must recognize that we are sinners who deserve hell and be willing to turn from our sins and put our faith in him.

"If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead you will be saved." Romans 10:9 ESV

[McCulloch]

God is holy and won't allow any sin in his presence [...]

so God became a human, dwelt with sinful unredeemed humans, took on the sin of humanity. Quite a feat for a being that won't allow any sin in his presence!

[JBlack]

One of the Greek words translated as "hell" is "gehenna". This was the name of a valley outside of Jerusalem where the city's garbage was burned up. This is a good illustration of the purpose of hell. God created a perfect universe but he gave some of his creatures free will, meaning that they could choose whether or not to obey him. Some of them, including Satan and Adam, did choose to disobey. This meant that now not everything in the universe was good. God created hell as a moral garbage dump where he could dispose of everything that wasn't good.

I wonder why God needs a garbage dump. He's all-powerful, why not just obliterate the garbage?

[JoshC]

It doesn't seem like the moral high ground anyway, dumping anything that isn't good.

I'd be slightly worried if when a child misbehaved he was put in the bin head first. Rather than being reiterated the rules and given another chance...

[Paul2]

JoshC,

However this is the jealous view the God in the Bible holds and no Christians seem bothered about its ethical implications.

Hell is a myth and has no support in the original language of the NT. There will be the lake of fire which is the second death. In death there is no consciousness. Afterward, there will be resurrection, life and reconciliation of all humanity to God. There will be happiness and harmony for everyone everlastingly.

God is the Saviour of every human.

1 Timothy 4:10: ...we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of ALL humans, especially of believers.

Colossians 1:20: and through Him to reconcile ALL to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens.

1 Corinthians 15:22: For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall ALL be vivified.

Romans 5:19: For even as, through the disobedience of the one human, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just.

Romans 3:22,23: yet a righteousness of God through Jesus Christ's faith, for ALL, and on all who are believing, for there is no distinction, for all sinned and are wanting of the glory of God.

Paul

[Tiberius47]

You do not in any way deserve eternal hell.

But, you might choose to be senisitive to the fact that many Jews would appreciate that you not use the Name of G-d in the way that you did. It's nothing to fight about, but it's a point of respect if that is important to you.

I agree, the OP does not deserve hell. No one deserves an eternal punishment.

But your second paragraph is ludicrous. Not use the word "God" because it many Jews might not appreciate it?

What about the fact that many atheists might not appreciate being told to follow what members of other religions think is right?

Those Jews don't want to use the word God? Fine, they don't have to. But don't think for a moment that you can reasonably expect people who don't share your point of view to act how you think. Not unless it is causing you harm.

You speak of the OP respecting Jews who don't like using the word God. But where is your respect for him?

It's very clear that Jonah was not speaking of the word "God," but of the Name of God - notice that he capitalized "Name" - and was referring to the word "Yahweh," the casual use of which many Jews do find offensive. I don't; that isn't God's proper name, and the Commandment doesn't refer to either "Yahweh" or to "God." The issue was no doubt confused because of his spelling of the word "God" as "G-d," which many Jews do as a token of respect for the Name, even though it isn't necessary. (I find it a little precious and distracting, and I personally only use "G-d" in personal correspondence with Jews who use that spelling.)

I don't think it's unreasonable to use "Yahweh" to make it clear that one is referring to the God of the OT or the Jews or Hebrews or whatever, but I would avoid it when having a discussion with someone who finds it offensive. The word "God" is not the issue.

If JoshC should avoid using the name Yahweh because it might offend some people, then I think it's more than fair for JoshC to epect that others won't epect him to abide by their religious beliefs.

so if someone has a problem with using the name Yahweh, then they don't have to use it. But they have no right to expect others to behave in the same way.

[cnorman18]

You do not in any way deserve eternal hell.

But, you might choose to be senisitive to the fact that many Jews would appreciate that you not use the Name of G-d in the way that you did. It's nothing to fight about, but it's a point of respect if that is important to you.

I agree, the OP does not deserve hell. No one deserves an eternal punishment.

But your second paragraph is ludicrous. Not use the word "God" because it many Jews might not appreciate it?

What about the fact that many atheists might not appreciate being told to follow what members of other religions think is right?

Those Jews don't want to use the word God? Fine, they don't have to. But don't think for a moment that you can reasonably expect people who don't share your point of view to act how you think. Not unless it is causing you harm.

You speak of the OP respecting Jews who don't like using the word God. But where is your respect for him?

It's very clear that Jonah was not speaking of the word "God," but of the Name of God - notice that he capitalized "Name" - and was referring to the word "Yahweh," the casual use of which many Jews do find offensive. I don't; that isn't God's proper name, and the Commandment doesn't refer to either "Yahweh" or to "God." The issue was no doubt confused because of his spelling of the word "God" as "G-d," which many Jews do as a token of respect for the Name, even though it isn't necessary. (I find it a little precious and distracting, and I personally only use "G-d" in personal correspondence with Jews who use that spelling.)

I don't think it's unreasonable to use "Yahweh" to make it clear that one is referring to the God of the OT or the Jews or Hebrews or whatever, but I would avoid it when having a discussion with someone who finds it offensive. The word "God" is not the issue.

If JoshC should avoid using the name Yahweh because it might offend some people, then I think it's more than fair for JoshC to epect that others won't epect him to abide by their religious beliefs.

so if someone has a problem with using the name Yahweh, then they don't have to use it. But they have no right to expect others to behave in the same way.

It was silly to protest against Josh's objection to using the word "God," since that wasn't the issue; "Yahweh" is a different matter. I rather agree with you, especially in the present case, where there was clearly no intent to offend. But on the other hand, if one insists on using a term that others find offensive, even when one has been so informed and when it's easily avoidable, one is clearly exhibiting an intent to offend. That is a different matter as well.

I don't think the word is anything to be concerned about myself, but I don't fling it in the faces of those who do. Seems a matter of common courtesy to me, as well as not distracting from whatever the actual discussion is.

Personally, I DO expect common courtesy from other members here. The difference is that between "I disagree with you" and "You are a moron." The same thought may lie behind both, but one is acceptable and can lead to further productive debate; the other is a conversation-killer and a fight-starter.

No one is obligated to follow the religious beliefs of another; but anyone who simply dismisses the sensitivities of others as silly and not worthy of notice is either a bully or a boor.

[Jayhawker Soule]

No one is obligated to follow the religious beliefs of another; but anyone who simply dismisses the sensitivities of others as silly and not worthy of notice is either a bully or a boor.

Good post.