Pornography . . .

[Miles]

why is it bad?

For those who may not be sure as to just what it is, here is a definition from Merriam-Webster.

• 1 : the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement
  
  2 : material (as books or a photograph) that depicts erotic behavior and is intended to cause sexual excitement

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 10:

How do you determine then what age they are mature enough?

Consulting experts in the related areas.

What are the emotional effects of sex?

Pleasant.

What makes you believe it is wrong for example if there is a consenting adult that allows it/ signs for it.

Because a child can't give informed consent. An adult signing for a child still doesn't show the child has informed consent.

My point is that if it this is at all bothering you by contemplating the implications then you have to admit that there is something morally wrong with pornography.

Only when children are involved.

Pornography keeps getting worse, that’s all you see.

Might I suggest parental controls for your life.

I don't see near as much pornography as I do depictions of murder, mayhem and such.

why should we even allow something that gives the potential for so much risk.

FREEDOM! FREEDOM! FREEDOM! Cars are risky, are you willing to give up yours?

as a Christian I ask myself not what can I get away with?, what is legal?,

As a freedom loving atheist, I do ask myself how I can "get away with" certain things my religiously motivated peers consider I shouldn't be doing.

does it matter if it doesn’t effect me?, but I ask myself is this going to cause problems for somebody who is struggling? Is this something that makes me a better person? Or is this going to hurt someone?

Valid concerns I ask as well.

Well if you want to go on that basis there is a heck of a lot more Christian/religious women in the world than not. Therefore most women in relationships should be offended by their significant other participating in it.

This doesn't address those relationships where both are willing to engage in pornography.

A Christian should, after accepting Jesus, continue to grow in their relationship with God. And not continue in sin.

Can you offer verifiable evidence your preferred god doesn't condone pornography, or are you just parroting the Bible?

Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

I want no part of a "kingdom" that doesn't accept folks for who they are. I agree theives and extortionists are a dastardly bunch, but the rest of those folks are no worse than oppressive Christians.

Yah people are loosing their morals more and more every day in this country, I wonder what the causes of that are.

Morals are pretty much always in a state of flux. Do you wear mixed fabrics?

This site shows the opinion of many psychiatrists.

Argumentum ad populum.

this is what the writer say’s about pornography : “Distorted views of perverted sex acts are presented as exciting and acceptable, and in many instances, the viewer is exposed to otherwise unimaginable ideas about sexuality that they themselves would never have considered.�

So the dude don't like porn. I'd tell him not to look at it.

the fact is that pornography twists the true way that sex should be. Should something this dangerous be alowed? Is it wrong to make it harder for people to be good?

What is this "true way sex should be"? Let me guess, your favored way?

Again, driving in traffic is dangerous, are you willing to go back to walking?

It's wrong to make it harder for folks to be good when you declare a God is the one doing the judging of what is good or not.

So do you think as a suggestion that we should all let our kids experience pornography even at young ages?

Of course not. Nor should one have a cow when a child does happen to see it (barring adult interference).

well #1- it sure is not healthy according to psychiatrists

I don't know where you get this claim. You imply all psychiatrists, and I don't think you can support this.

it may be fun and popular but that doesn’t mean it’s good

Nor does it means it's bad.

if you put 2 and 2 together something even something that’s ok for most people but stumbling for a lot of people is still bad.

That folks "stumble" is on them. I'd propose more practice.

Yah sex is fun to play around with huh. “Recently in the U.S. it was reported that the sexually transmissible diseases, chlamydia, gonorrhea, and AIDS, were the three most commonly reported infectious disorders in 1995.� - Noel Hornor.

Doesn't address those who practice safe sex. Given that the religious majority has a coniption at any mention of meaningful sex education, I'd say this'n doesn't reflect what could occur with better information.

Also according to the 2000 Census, there are currently about 11 million people living with an unmarried partner in the U.S. This includes both same-sex and different-sex couples. The number of unmarried couples living together increased 72% between 1990 and 2000. The number of unmarried couples living together has increased tenfold between 1960 and 2000.

What's your point?

studies also show that the increase of internet pages and access has increased in a even greater period within 14 million to 260 million 1998-2003 according to the U.S. senate judiciary committee. That’s 5 years.

Folks'll get their porn, the internet just makes it so much easier.

The growth in parallel is huge and the fact is that the industry really doesn’t care if they get kids into it or not. Only 3% of internet pornography requires age verification.

Are you of legal age to enter? Click YES for PORN, click NO for NO PORN.

Yeah, that sounds effective.

even if the belief that porn is ok as long as it’s regulated was true there’s nobody that lives up to even there own standards. because the fact is that there is little to nothing being done about this issue.

I'd propose it's because so many folks don't see anything wrong with it. Seems it takes an undefined critical mass to "muster the troops", and again, I'd propose it's cause folks just aren't that concerned about it.

Also the type of porn is getting worse and worse. Is this coincidence? Or is it a supply to demand. All these things and much more can track along side the increase of tolerance of pornography and other things in the History of the united states.

Actually, since I don't have to rely on Playboy for my porn fix, I'd say the non-airbrushed aspect is exceedingly much better.

[jwitness]

These days pornography is all pervasive and appears to be accepted in most of modern society. Where once it was the province of disreputable cinemas and red light districts, it is now eminently mainstream in many communities. In the United States alone, pornography generates more than ten billion dollars annually.

Some defenders promote pornography as a way to spice up a dull marriage. One writer said: “It stimulates an active fantasy life. It offers instruction for sexual pleasure.� Others claim that it encourages frankness and openness about sexual matters.

However, pornography has been linked to a wide range of harmful outcomes and attitudes. Some suggest a connection between pornography and rape as well as other forms of violence against woman and children. Infamous serious killer Ted Bundy admits that he has a strong appetite for violent pornography. He says: “This condition is not immediately seen by the individual or identified as a serious problem.. But this interest becomes geared towards matters of sexual nature that involve violence. I cannot emphasize enough the gradual development of this. It is not short-term.�

In the bible, clear advice and counsel are given regarding sexual relations, including the limits within which they should be enjoyed. Sex outside of the marriage arrangement is forbidden. So are all forms of deviant and perverted sexual practices. – 1 Cor 6:9; Gal 5:19.

Rather than portraying sexual relations as a beautiful and intimate expression of love between a man and a woman in honorable marriage, pornography demeans and distorts the sexual act. Casual and perverted sex are portrayed as exciting and desirable. Personal gratification with little or no regard for the other person is highlighted.

“Love does not behave indecently,� wrote Paul. “it does not look for its own interests.� – 1 Cor. 13:5. Instead of love, pornography cultivates self centered, selfish desires.

[FinalEnigma]

1) child pornography.

please explain to me the difference between this and adult pornography

Do you actually not see a distinction?

children are not old enough or mature enough to deal with the results and emotional effects of sex, let alone to have it shown to others.

And yeah, what Mc said.

---- How do you determine then what age they are mature enough?

As Joey said, consulting experts. For the moment, the legal minimum age of 18 is certainly adequate

What are the emotional effects of sex?

For children it is extremely traumatic. For adults, nothing negative.

What makes you believe it is wrong for example if there is a consenting adult that allows it/ signs for it.

If a child of 8 wants to go drive a car, and their parent agrees and lets them, is it right for them to go cruising down main street?

---My point is that if it this is at all bothering you by contemplating the implications then you have to admit that there is something morally wrong with pornography.

Is sex itself immoral?
no.

would sex be immoral if children were involved(and not just in the 'being concieved' part of it)?
Hell yes.

Does the fact that something is wrong for children make it wrong for everyone?
no.

--- why should we even allow something that gives the potential for so much risk.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07218/807323-85.stm

Show me stats that show how pornography causes more deaths each year than cars, and that point would be relevant. if we shouldn't allow risk, we shouldn't allow cars either, or a great number of recreational activities.

--- as a Christian I ask myself not what can I get away with?, what is legal?, does it matter if it doesn’t effect me?, but I ask myself is this going to cause problems for somebody who is struggling? Is this something that makes me a better person? Or is this going to hurt someone?

That's great, but I don't ask myself such self-centered questions either. I ask more like
"Will this action harm anyone? no? then its probably okay."

There are a significant proportion of women who seriously object to their significant other viewing pornography?
well, I suppose religious, christian women might.

--- Well if you want to go on that basis there is a heck of a lot more Christian/religious women in the world than not. Therefore most women in relationships should be offended by their significant other participating in it.

By religious, I meant particularly religious, not the kind that go to church on the weekend and pay lip service.

But I know a rather zealous christian who was actually a porn star for awhile. with his wife. They made pretty good money.

---- If that’s true that’s totally hypocritical and anti-Christian. There is no foundation for any sexual immorality as being ok in the Christian faith. She may be religious but she’s not a good Christian. A Christian should, after accepting Jesus, continue to grow in their relationship with God. And not continue in sin. not saying they can't be susceptible to sin but that person should strive to be better. (Romans 6:1-2)�What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?�(1 Corinthians 6:9-10) Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

Okay, now explain to me who they hurt. They didn't engage in any kind of sex which God would deem immoral(when I expressed surprise that my friend was a porn star while being a religious christian, he explained). All they did was let other people watch them having sex. Where in the bible does it say that it is immoral to have sex with other people watching? and who, exactly, did they hurt by having normal, consensual, non-crazy or immoral sex?

it isn't uncommon at all for girlfriends to be completely un-bothered by their boyfriends watching pornography, and sometimes will watch it with them.

---- Yah people are loosing their morals more and more every day in this country, I wonder what the causes of that are.

Probably the rise of evangelical Christians. while the number of Christians is decreasing, the number of evangelicals has been on the rise, and we all know they have higher rates of: teen pregnancy, divorce, and crime in general than atheists do. /tongue-in-cheek

3) non-consentual pornography(camera in the motel wall or something, or forced)

absolutely, but unfortunately this happens alot because of the increase of pornography addictions.

Prove the causation please.

---- This site shows the opinion of many psychiatrists. http://www.contentwatch.com/learn_center/article/107
--- this is what the writer say’s about pornography : “Distorted views of perverted sex acts are presented as exciting and acceptable, and in many instances, the viewer is exposed to otherwise unimaginable ideas about sexuality that they themselves would never have considered.�
--- the fact is that pornography twists the true way that sex should be. Should something this dangerous be alowed? Is it wrong to make it harder for people to be good?

[/quote]
Okay, so then you agree with me? since I did say that pornography which encourages illegal or harmful acts is wrong...

But not all pornography does.

4) pornography that is being shown to children.

lol, this makes no sense whatsoever. why is it wrong to portray pornography to children when it's ok for adults.

Adults are mature enough to deal with sex. Children are not. Now, as far as viewing it, I think that's largely the fault of society. If sex was handled more openly, then I don't believe it wold be harmful, even for the relatively young.(note, unsupported opinion italicized here)

---- So do you think as a suggestion that we should all let our kids experience pornography even at young ages? This rebuttal doesn’t agree with what you have said. You say it’s wrong(according to you to show pornography but how can we show sex more openly to kids.

first of all, i said this was an unsupported opinion, so I'm not obligated to defend it, however, my point was that showing pornography to children is deemed harmful, and it might currently be - I don't know for sure, however, for children to know what sex is would not be harmful. it is not uncommon for children to see animals having sex in the real world (particularly a few decades ago). This did not harm them. I think a healthy exposure to sex would not in any way harm children.

---if you want to try and use the nudist article again, go ahead, but the article clearly shows that all promiscuity is strictly forbidden so, therefore, it’s not the same whatsoever.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... z0WUaT8sRc

it also shows that exposure to the human body is not harmful for children.

5) pornography that somehow encourages illegal or harmful sexual activity.

---- the more you deal with pornography you become hardened to it and desire something more provocative than before. it's an addictive cycle that leads to all kinds of problems in a persons life. some are worse than others but to say that pornography is ok for anybody or even most people is a sad mistake.

There is a serious difference between getting kicks from watching sex and wanting to go out and rape women(which, actually, isn't about sex anyway).

A very large percentage of the population has, or does watch pornography, but not that many have problems due to it. As I said above, it isn't my cup of tea, but it isn't in itself harmful. Anything taken to excess is, but the occasional video every couple weeks? isn't going to do harm to the normal, healthy adult, and in fact, might well be positively healthy(that last qualification is another unsupported opinion).

---- well #1- it sure is not healthy according to psychiatrists
#2- it may be fun and popular but that doesn’t mean it’s good
#3- if you put 2 and 2 together something even something that’s ok for most people but stumbling for a lot of people is still bad.

You mean like the bar down on the corner? Did you know that alcohol in small quantities has proven health benefits? I can pull out an argument to show that occasional porn has health benefits too if you like.

it is not healthy in excess according to psychiatrists. the occasional, every few weeks looking at something to excite you when your spouse is on the way home from work is not going to hurt anybody.

---- Yah sex is fun to play around with huh. “Recently in the U.S. it was reported that the sexually transmissible diseases, chlamydia, gonorrhea, and AIDS, were the three most commonly reported infectious disorders in 1995.� - Noel Hornor.

yes, because watching pornography gives you aids.

now you are arguing against unsafe sex...

----Also according to the 2000 Census, there are currently about 11 million people living with an unmarried partner in the U.S. This includes both same-sex and different-sex couples. The number of unmarried couples living together increased 72% between 1990 and 2000. The number of unmarried couples living together has increased tenfold between 1960 and 2000.

Arguing against room-mates? (or long term stable relationships?)

---studies also show that the increase of internet pages and access has increased in a even greater period within 14 million to 260 million 1998-2003 according to the U.S. senate judiciary committee. That’s 5 years.

Arguing against the internet.

--- The growth in parallel is huge and the fact is that the industry really doesn’t care if they get kids into it or not. Only 3% of internet pornography requires age verification.

Arguing against showing porn to children.(oh wait, I already mentioned that)

[McCulloch]

These days pornography is all pervasive and appears to be accepted in most of modern society.

So are electronic communication and fast food.

Where once it was the province of disreputable cinemas and red light districts, it is now eminently mainstream in many communities.

Yeah. So? It used to be shameful to purchase birth control.

In the United States alone, pornography generates more than ten billion dollars annually.

In 2006, gaming activities generated gross revenues of over ninety billion dollars in the United States. How is either of these facts relevant?

Some defenders promote pornography as a way to spice up a dull marriage. One writer said: "It stimulates an active fantasy life. It offers instruction for sexual pleasure." Others claim that it encourages frankness and openness about sexual matters.

Is there something wrong with either of those aims?

However, pornography has been linked to a wide range of harmful outcomes and attitudes.

Please cite some proper studies showing these alleged links.

Some suggest a connection between pornography and rape as well as other forms of violence against woman and children.

Research concerning the effects of pornography is inconclusive. Some studies support the contention that the viewing of pornographic material may increase rates of sexual crimes, while others have shown no effects, or a decrease in the rates of such crimes. Moreover, all these studies focus on various correlations, but correlation does not imply causation.

Infamous serious killer Ted Bundy admits that he has a strong appetite for violent pornography.

And Hitler was a vegetarian. However, I will join you in opposition of any linking of sexual acts with violence and degradation. That, however, is not a ban on pornography.

In the bible, clear advice and counsel are given regarding sexual relations, including the limits within which they should be enjoyed. Sex outside of the marriage arrangement is forbidden. So are all forms of deviant and perverted sexual practices. – 1 Cor 6:9; Gal 5:19.

Absolutely. Anyone who accepts the Bible as an authority on morals should avoid those practices prohibited by the Bible: overeating, wearing fine clothes, saving money, eating shellfish, mixing fibers and working on the Sabbath. But for the rest of us, it does not apply.

Rather than portraying sexual relations as a beautiful and intimate expression of love between a man and a woman in honorable marriage, pornography demeans and distorts the sexual act. Casual and perverted sex are portrayed as exciting and desirable. Personal gratification with little or no regard for the other person is highlighted.

You know this for a fact or have you been told? Would you still object to pornography involving committed consensual sexual relations focused on mutual pleasure?

[FinalEnigma]

You know this for a fact or have you been told? Would you still object to pornography involving committed consensual sexual relations focused on mutual pleasure?

He must, because he objected to my friend and his wife doing pornography of that manner. (which said friend justified because they performed no sex acts which were harmful, denigrating, or in any way immoral.)

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 12:

...However, pornography has been linked to a wide range of harmful outcomes and attitudes.

So has religion.

Some suggest a connection between pornography and rape as well as other forms of violence against woman and children.

Suggesting is not proving.

Infamous serious killer Ted Bundy admits that he has a strong appetite for violent pornography.

A sexually motivated killer with a strong appetite for porn? Whodathunkit?

Are we to conclude seeing porn leads to folks going on to commit murder?

He says: “This condition is not immediately seen by the individual or identified as a serious problem

Bundy was a failed lawyer, he has no credentials for psychiatry or psychology (nor do I).

In the bible, clear advice and counsel are given regarding sexual relations

Except it is presented as the wants or wishes of a god that can't be shown to exist.

Sex outside of the marriage arrangement is forbidden.

Can you offer verifiable evidence your favored god forbids anything?

Rather than portraying sexual relations as a beautiful and intimate expression of love between a man and a woman in honorable marriage, pornography demeans and distorts the sexual act.

Distorts it according to whose standard?

Casual and perverted sex are portrayed as exciting and desirable. Personal gratification with little or no regard for the other person is highlighted.

I have high regard for good-looking chicks who are willing to let me see the good parts. Heck, I've even paid chicks just to get them to get naked. If paying my hard earned money is not respect, well then respect just doesn't exist.

[Jayhawker Soule]

If paying my hard earned money is not respect, well then respect just doesn't exist.

In your case that may well be true, but in fact people pay for all manner of things. That you would equate this as indicative of respect exemplifies something more than a little disgusting and corrosive. I'm left to wonder if you have a sister or daughter ...

[T-mash]

If paying my hard earned money is not respect, well then respect just doesn't exist.

In your case that may well be true, but in fact people pay for all manner of things. That you would equate this as indicative of respect exemplifies something more than a little disgusting and corrosive. I'm left to wonder if you have a sister or daughter ...

I'm obviously not going to use his family as an example, but if "someone's" daughter or sister is in pornography, I fail to see what is so bad about that?

However, pornography has been linked to a wide range of harmful outcomes and attitudes. Some suggest a connection between pornography and rape as well as other forms of violence against woman and children.

On the contrary. Pornography is a great way for most men to deal with sexual frustration.

Casual and perverted sex are portrayed as exciting and desirable.

It is. I fail to see the problem here. If two people enjoy having sex with each other, what is the problem with this?

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 17:

If paying my hard earned money is not respect, well then respect just doesn't exist.

In your case that may well be true, but in fact people pay for all manner of things. That you would equate this as indicative of respect exemplifies something more than a little disgusting and corrosive. I'm left to wonder if you have a sister or daughter ...

Whether a sister or daughter decides to engage in pornography is their decision, not mine. I would not lose any respect for a sister or daughter that decided to pose. I would lose respect if they messed up the barbecue

My point is that my time and money is valuable, if only to me. I'd respect a chick that told me up front to just pay for pics (OP) or sex, or both, as opposed to one who would require me to entertain some elaborate, expensive social ritual that in the end results in the only thing I really wanted in the first place. This doesn't mean I don't enjoy "the game", only that sometimes shortcuts are the better option for all involved.

[T-mash]

My point is that my time and money is valuable, if only to me. I'd respect a chick that told me up front to just pay for pics (OP) or sex, or both, as opposed to one who would require me to entertain some elaborate, expensive social ritual that in the end results in the only thing I really wanted in the first place. This doesn't mean I don't enjoy "the game", only that sometimes shortcuts are the better option for all involved.

I admit I found that description pretty funny