Tithes

[Cashro]

I have been very interested in this "Tithe" idea ever since my sister told me that she gives 10% of her and her husband's TOTAL income to the church. This Boggles my mind, My sister is a scientist and her Husband is an Engineer. They make quite a bit of money, so a donation now and then to help out a place they attend every week or so wpuld be fine. But, for them to be duped into believing that they must give 10% of thier income to the church in order to recieve blessings from God is just inane to me. I can not undestand how a scientist and an engineer, both of whom are incrediably intelligent, would just give away 10% of thier income because they are told it is written in the bible. The word "Tithe" appeas 38 times in 32 verses in both the old and new testaments of the King James Verion of the Bible. All I could find in any of these references is that "Tithes" were given unto God, and not unto a priest, or paster, or anyother Man Of God. Where and how are they used? I could understand a community coming together and raising money for a leaky roof in thier church or new pews or organs or something but as far as a mandatory giving, I think that it is merely an interpretation, in order to recieve more money (Collection Plates) than they already do. I mean I knew a pastor who drove around in a brand new Caddilac Escalade, put 3 kids through college and live in a near mansion. Unless this pastor is selling illegal drugs on the side I would say that this Tithe is going into his pocket. I'm sure the government doesn't tax the Tithes, I don't know that for a fact, but I can imagine they don't. If Anyone could help explain where exactly, in any holy book, it says that one would need to give 10% to thier priest and not unto God himself I'd really appreciate it. To me, I was given 2 passages by a mormon I was debating on another site, she said Genesis 28:22 (KJ Ver.), and proverb 3:9 (KJ Ver.). Now Tithe is not listed ineither of these passages but my interpretation of

"I will surely give the tenth unto thee."

, indicates the tenth commandment and not a Tithe. If someone could help me Understand and possibly PROVE where tithes are given unto preists I would be greatly humbled.[/b]

[hannahjoy]

I would assume it's 10% of the gross.

Cashro, you're not making much sense. I already explained why tithes today are usually monetary.
As for the church owning a tenth of my home - how did I get that home? Say I earned a certain amount of money, first I gave 10% of that money, then the rest of that money on a home. If I then gave a tenth of that home, I'd be giving 19% of my income.
Then you ask where the pastor gets his money?
And I already told you being a pastor is not just a "Sunday job" - it's full-time.

Hannah Joy

[Cashro]

Very Good Young Grasshopper. Good Interpretation. You are mighty in thine way of thought and should be commended. Very good, and a point well taken.

[Cashro]

Hannah Joy,

If being a Pastor is a full time job then who pays him God? I think not, perhaps your measly donation basket that gets past around pays for his house and morgage. Perhaps a lil leprechaun comes down from the sky with a pot of gold. How could a pastor be a full time job when there is no income. You already said that Tithes are for the church and not the pastor, so then where infact does he get paid. Even if he has pHD in creative religious structures, that doesn't put food on the table or a roof over his head. The amount of money just to keep up some of the larger churches has to be absolutely outrages. I can not see how a man could live so lavishly with so little income, without taking part of the tithes. If someone could explain where a pastor gets his money from, I would greatly appreciate it, I admit I am nieve in all religions, because I feel that evolutionism is the only logical way that man was created. Through millions of years of evolution, man became what he is today. The notion that adam simply appeared, again I am nieve in these areas, and the woman, Eve, was created from his rib bone makes sense to you. That seems a wee far fetched, over the notion that genetic mutations and survival of the fittest is where we would come from. Natural Selection is the only possible way that animals could have been brought into this world. Did God create a mosquito, then for what purpose, a Dragonfly has no purpose that I've ever seen and the live all around me. So why would a God create useless animals, and have only one species to rule the entire world. A species that is soaked in blood and rage and war. A species that is not harmonious with nature, but destroys it for money. This all seems quite insane, except the notion of survival of the fittest. Humans, being the most adaptable, creative, and intelligent life form on the planet are obviously the fittest to survive. And even in the 2000 years since history has been kept, human are quickly evolving, from hose and carriage to automobiles. From typewriters to laptop computers. Everything evolves, all be it slowly, one day we may look completely different from what we do today, or we may all look alike who's to say. I am not bashing religion in any way and if it sounds like I am then I apologize, but the Bible was created when man had no explanations for the world around them and to instill a moral law for all to abide. With this hellfire and brimstone preaching, children were terrified of sinning, as were adults. I don't see why people need to give money, a set amount net or gross, to any one if they just live peacefully and pray if they wish or not. Why must one pray at a church and not at home? Does God hear you better when you're in a church? The Tsunami victims surly could have used God's help as well as the people aboard the aircrafts at 9/11. You don't think they were all praying for God to help them, and where was he. Where was your god during WWI and WWII, Vietnam, Korea, Gulf war, any war, is he too busy to let all these men and women and children be burned and bombed?

[BeHereNow]

I feel that evolutionism is the only logical way that man was created.

Certainly there are some who feel Creation is more logical than evolution, but there are other choices.
Ever hear of Theistic Evolution, or Deism?

You already said that Tithes are for the church and not the pastor

The pastor is part of the church.

Why must one pray at a church and not at home?

Uh, I don’t think naive is the right word.
Ignorance comes to mind though.
[Ignorance-thinking one knows something, when in fact they don't have a clue.]

If I may make a suggestion, I think you should stick to brain surgery. You seem to know more about it than religion.

[Cashro]

OK you say, BeHereNow, that the Pastor is "Part of the Church", if this is true then wouldn't the choir boys, organists, and attendees also be a part. If only the Pastor is a part of the church then whom are all the others present during the rites? Instead of giving me an answer as to why people can't simply pray at their homes you simply ripped me and called me ignorant. I see no reason for a person to simply pray and worship at home. I'm sure many people do it, those who are too old to go to church, bed ridden people and people who have diseases where they could simply not leave their homes. Would this mean then that they are less religious than the people that attend a church, I would certainly hope not. I try to explain my theories and views and you seem to just rip them apart. If you would simply explain each article you are addressing then maybe we could carry on a civil debate. I am very nieve in the way of Deism, Webster's dictionary defines it as such, "a movement or system of thought advocating natural religion, emphasizing morality, and in the 18th century denying the interference of the Creator with the laws of the universe". If you could further expand on this definition I would be very grateful. I have never believed there to be a God or Gods simply because there are too many religions around the world and no one religion could possibly be the correct one. Everyone whom believes in their religion simply disregards all other religions as being wrong. so if each person believing in a God or Gods disregards all other religions then how could anyone religion be correct. I'm sure Mormons don't this Catholics, or Atheists to be morally correct, do you. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, but with so many out there it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to prove which religion is the correct one. I believe that from the big bang a microscopic atom or carbon lifeform was created. then though billions of years of evolution and survival of the fittest we have what we now know as our planet. I just can't seem to logically think that a God or Gods put man on earth as man. Just looking at an evolutionary chart should show that it's the only way it could possibly logically be. Please let me know how you feel on this and don't just tear me apart, explain yourself please, like I said I am nieve to all religions, even the Wicans. I never claimed to know anything of any religion, except I know very very little of christianity, that's it. I don't want to offend anyone in anything I say, I am just trying to figure out how we were created and why people only give ten percent of their money and not ten percent of anything else to the church. Also How a priest makes money.

[Cashro]

Can someone explain Tokens to me I see some have them and others don't. What are they good for, simply like a ranking system or what. Please let me know I am quite curious.

[BeHereNow]

This thread is about tithing. Hannaahjoy has given you Biblical references and you seem to ignore them. I am through with the tithe issue. Hannahjoy may give it one more attempt. That is of course up to her.
Now you get into other issues, implying in part that there are too many belief systems so you choose to believe none. I will do one more post this evening concerning these other issues.
There are groups of churches which do not reject evolution.
There are groups of churches which do not adhere to the Old Testament beliefs in tithing.

[BeHereNow]

All religions are belief systems, but not all belief systems are religions.
Everyone has a belief system. Most people call it a religion. Some people call it Atheism. Some call it philosophy. Some people call it “I do whatever I want, whenever I want.” Some people call it “I just live life”. You do not have to belong to a group or have a name for it to have a belief system.

OK you say, BeHereNow, that the Pastor is "Part of the Church", if this is true then wouldn't the choir boys, organists, and attendees also be a part. If only the Pastor is a part of the church then whom are all the others present during the rites?

There are many members or parts of a church. Only a few of them get paid. You should not assume all of them get paid when there is no reason to believe this.

Instead of giving me an answer as to why people can't simply pray at their homes you simply ripped me and called me ignorant. I see no reason for a person to simply pray and worship at home. I'm sure many people do it, those who are too old to go to church, bed ridden people and people who have diseases where they could simply not leave their homes.

People who pray want to go to church, or watch church on TV and pray that way.
Religious people can pray anywhere, but most of them spend time with others of their faith and pray in church.

Would this mean then that they are less religious than the people that attend a church, I would certainly hope not.

You are right.

"a movement or system of thought advocating natural religion, emphasizing morality, and in the 18th century denying the interference of the Creator with the laws of the universe". If you could further expand on this definition I would be very grateful.

Deism believes there is a creator, but does not require a belief in the creation story. This leads to Theistic Evolution, the belief that God works with the natural laws of science to create life forms.

I have never believed there to be a God or Gods simply because there are too many religions around the world and no one religion could possibly be the correct one.

Your statement is a logically false statement.
True statement: If there were only one belief system in the world, that would not be proof that it was true.
True statement: If there were 1000 belief systems in the world, that would not be proof that none of them were true.

Everyone whom believes in their religion simply disregards all other religions as being wrong.

Not everyone. Most of them do, but not everyone.

so if each person believing in a God or Gods disregards all other religions then how could anyone religion be correct.

This does not prove that none of them are true. It is possible that only one is true.

I'm sure Mormons don't this Catholics, or Atheists to be morally correct, do you. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, but with so many out there it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to prove which religion is the correct one.

Each person decides for themselves what belief system they will follow. For most people it is a religion, but there are belief systems which are not religions. Atheism is a belief system some people follow.

I believe that from the big bang a microscopic atom or carbon lifeform was created. then though billions of years of evolution and survival of the fittest we have what we now know as our planet. I just can't seem to logically think that a God or Gods put man on earth as man.

This is the scientific view, and many religions agree with this. Many do not.

Just looking at an evolutionary chart should show that it's the only way it could possibly logically be.

For you this is true. Other people assume different premises, so it is not true for them.

Please let me know how you feel on this and don't just tear me apart, explain yourself please, like I said I am nieve to all religions, even the Wicans. I never claimed to know anything of any religion, except I know very very little of christianity, that's it. I don't want to offend anyone in anything I say, I am just trying to figure out how we were created

I am a Deist who believes in Theistic Evolution. God started the ball rolling and nature took over, billions of years ago.
I do not think God is important. God and the Big Bang might be the same thing, I don’t care. If you could prove there is no God, it would not change how I act or what I do. I think Jesus was a wonderful teacher. I think Buddha was just as good.
Did you mean to say “how we were created”?

and why people only give ten percent of their money and not ten percent of anything else to the church.

This is up to each person. No one believe someone will go to hell if they do not give 10%. Some give more, some less. Some count only money, some count time and talent too.

Also How a priest makes money.

There is no easy answer to this because there are so many religions.
Sometimes you talk like all religions are alike. This is not true.
Some “men of God” do not get any money. They have a vow of poverty. They are given food, shelter and clothing, nothing else. They might be monks.
Some do preaching, and get part of the collection that is taken after the sermon (called a love offering).
Most get a salary, paid by the church members. They get hired just like a teacher. The church members say we will pay a pastor $25,000 per year, let's find a person we like to take the job.

I do not understand why it is important to you how pastors get paid.
Pastors are church leaders, the church followers should be allowed to decide how much they get paid. They get to decide what is fair, not you. If they want to pay them one million dollars to talk for 5 minutes once a year, why should it bother you. It is their money, not yours. If being a preacher was easy money like you say, there would be too many preachers. Some preachers are paid very little and only preach on Sunday. Most of gthem are paid well, but work 5 or 6 days per week doing what needs done, which is decided by the church members. Some preachers have to mow the grass and paint the walls. Some preachers are paid well, visit the sick, conduct funerals and weddings, and do lots of other things. If they don’t earn their money, the church members get someone else for the job.

You admit you know almost nothing about religions and how they work, but you presume to know what they should or should not do.

[BeHereNow]

Click here for explaination of tokens.

[chachynga]

I have been very interested in this "Tithe" idea ever since my sister told me that she gives 10% of her and her husband's TOTAL income to the church. This Boggles my mind, My sister is a scientist and her Husband is an Engineer. They make quite a bit of money, so a donation now and then to help out a place they attend every week or so wpuld be fine. But, for them to be duped into believing that they must give 10% of thier income to the church in order to recieve blessings from God is just inane to me. I can not undestand how a scientist and an engineer, both of whom are incrediably intelligent, would just give away 10% of thier income because they are told it is written in the bible. The word "Tithe" appeas 38 times in 32 verses in both the old and new testaments of the King James Verion of the Bible. All I could find in any of these references is that "Tithes" were given unto God, and not unto a priest, or paster, or anyother Man Of God. Where and how are they used? I could understand a community coming together and raising money for a leaky roof in thier church or new pews or organs or something but as far as a mandatory giving, I think that it is merely an interpretation, in order to recieve more money (Collection Plates) than they already do. I mean I knew a pastor who drove around in a brand new Caddilac Escalade, put 3 kids through college and live in a near mansion. Unless this pastor is selling illegal drugs on the side I would say that this Tithe is going into his pocket. I'm sure the government doesn't tax the Tithes, I don't know that for a fact, but I can imagine they don't. If Anyone could help explain where exactly, in any holy book, it says that one would need to give 10% to thier priest and not unto God himself I'd really appreciate it. To me, I was given 2 passages by a mormon I was debating on another site, she said Genesis 28:22 (KJ Ver.), and proverb 3:9 (KJ Ver.). Now Tithe is not listed ineither of these passages but my interpretation of

"I will surely give the tenth unto thee."

, indicates the tenth commandment and not a Tithe. If someone could help me Understand and possibly PROVE where tithes are given unto preists I would be greatly humbled.[/b]

First off there is no thing that requires you to give to a "church"!

Second off if the minister is a WORTHY minister and they have the wherewithall then they can/should give 20% biblical to-boot.

Read the bible, it shows what is to be given as tythe and it is necessary... you pay one way or another.