Biblical Contradictions

[achilles12604]

Ok. I looked over the last few pages of topics and I couldn't find one dedicated to this discussion (much to my surprise). Therefore I am starting it.


What are the biblical contradictions which the atheists keep refering to and what are the answers by apologists.

Ready, set . . . GO!

[Goat]

I asked you a question a long time ago. You never answered. Do you believe Jesus Christ the one from Nazareth is the Son of God? Have you made a public profession of faith in Him? Do you believe He died for your sins on the cross and was resurrected three days later? You never answered this Micatala? Could you answer this long ago asked question?
If you do what do you base this faith on?
These are simple questions?

Biker

I will answer. No, Jesus was not the son of God. No one died for anybodies sins, and no one was ressurected three days later.

[micatala]

McCulloch wrote:

Matthew 27:9 wrote:
Then that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "AND THEY TOOK THE THIRTY PIECES OF SILVER, THE PRICE OF THE ONE WHOSE PRICE HAD BEEN SET by the sons of Israel;


McCulloch wrote:

Well not Jeremiah but Zechariah 11:12 wrote:
I said to them, "If it is good in your sight, give me my wages; but if not, never mind!" So they weighed out thirty shekels of silver as my wages.

There is no indication in the text of Zechariah, that this was meant to be a prophesy beyond the current situation between Israel and Judah.



McCulloch wrote:
There are two problems with Matthew 27:9. Firstly, it refers to something that is claimed to be from the prophet Jeremiah.

Technically, this is NOT a contradiction in the Biblical text proper. Note that the text of Matthew says "spoken" NOT "written" by Jeremiah. So there is no reason for us to necessarily expect this specific scripture to be found in Jeremiah. It may have simply been an oral tradition attributed to Jeremiah that was never recorded by Jeremiah. Absence of an OT prophecy is NOT a contradiction. It may serve to cause us to question the prophecy, but this entirely different.

Well, my initial reaction is that this is quite a stretch. Is there ANY evidence of any reference by a NT author to an OT figure where the NT author is referencing something that was only SAID and not written in scripture?


In addition, consider Matthew 2:17,18

17Then what was said through the prophet Jeremiah was fulfilled:
18"A voice is heard in Ramah,
weeping and great mourning,
Rachel weeping for her children
and refusing to be comforted,
because they are no more."[g]

Here, we again have Matthew writing that this was 'said' but not 'written' by Jeremiah. However, this passage does appear in Jeremiah 31:15. To imply that Matthew was making some kind of intentional distinction between what was written in Jeremiah and what was not based on his use of 'it is written' versus 'it was spoken' or 'said' is clearly wrong.

To suggest that the 'spoken' language means Matthew was not intending to refer to what was actually in written scripture is highly speculative, to say the least.

15 This is what the LORD says:
"A voice is heard in Ramah,
mourning and great weeping,
Rachel weeping for her children
and refusing to be comforted,
because her children are no more."

Also, note that throughout Jeremiah, the prophecies are preface by phrases like "This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD."



Also, your contrasting points do not work either. In the passage you refer to in Matthew 26, it is not Matthew that is saying 'it is written', it is Matthew quoting Jesus who is saying 'it is written'.

Contrast this by Matthew indicating that a particular OT scripture was written. Matt 21:42, 26:31 as examples.

Then Jesus told them, "This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written:
" 'I will strike the shepherd,
and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.'[c] 32But after I have risen, I will go ahead of you into Galilee."

It is not Matthew who is indicating that this was written, but Jesus. This does not contrast Matthew's use of the words 'written' versus 'spoken or said' at all.

The same is true in the passage in Matthew 21:42 you cite.

42Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures:
" 'The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone[a];
the Lord has done this,
and it is marvelous in our eyes'?

How on earth one can suggest that Matthew was not intending to refer to written scripture based on what he actually wrote?

[Biker]

At any rate. How would Biker explain this one contradiction raised by McCulloch? THis question certainly is on-topic. It also cannot likely be explained as a copyist error, as in the 22 versus 42 example.

Could someone explain to me what is wrong with Matthew 27:9? What specifically are you questioning?

Matthew says that Jeremiah says:

They took the thirty silver coins, the price set on him by the people of Israel, 10and they used them to buy the potter's field, as the Lord commanded me.

I searched through all 52 chapters of Jeremiah. In both the NIV and Kings James translations, the word 'coin' or 'coins' does not even appear.

Therefore, the Bible, in Matthew Chapter 27 verse 9, has made a claim contrary to fact. It says that a certain statement appears in Jeremiah. It does not.

Biker's definition of inerrant is that the Bible makes no statements contrary to fact. Therefore, according to Biker's definition, the Bible is not inerrant.



The references given at Biblegateway.com point from Matthew 27:9 to Zechariah, as noted by McCulloch above, and the following:

This is what the LORD says: "Go and buy a clay jar from a potter. Take along some of the elders of the people and of the priests 2 and go out to the Valley of Ben Hinnom, near the entrance of the Potsherd Gate. There proclaim the words I tell you, 3 and say, 'Hear the word of the LORD, O kings of Judah and people of Jerusalem. This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Listen! I am going to bring a disaster on this place that will make the ears of everyone who hears of it tingle. 4 For they have forsaken me and made this a place of foreign gods; they have burned sacrifices in it to gods that neither they nor their fathers nor the kings of Judah ever knew, and they have filled this place with the blood of the innocent.

Jeremiah said, "The word of the LORD came to me: 7 Hanamel son of Shallum your uncle is going to come to you and say, 'Buy my field at Anathoth, because as nearest relative it is your right and duty to buy it.'

8 "Then, just as the LORD had said, my cousin Hanamel came to me in the courtyard of the guard and said, 'Buy my field at Anathoth in the territory of Benjamin. Since it is your right to redeem it and possess it, buy it for yourself.'

Thus, Matthew misspoke.

I asked you a question a long time ago. You never answered. Do you believe Jesus Christ the one from Nazareth is the Son of God? Have you made a public profession of faith in Him? Do you believe He died for your sins on the cross and was resurrected three days later? You never answered this Micatala? Could you answer this long ago asked question?
If you do what do you base this faith on?
These are simple questions?

Biker

These questions are not on topic. Mine was. I am not sure why you continue to avoid questions which are on topic by posing other questions which are not.

However, I will give a partial answer anyway.

I do believe in Jesus as the Son of God and have made 'public profession' of this. I believe Jesus 'died for my sins' but may have a different understanding of this than you do. My reasons for returning to Christianity after a period during which I called myself an atheist include an inner conviction that there is more to being human than simply the material, that there is such a thing as an 'eternal moral law' even if we humans will never be able to perfectly apprehend, that Jesus life and teachings speak compellingly to these internal convictions and persuade me that he is from God.

Although I am open to revising some of the details regarding my view of Christians doctrine and my personal beliefs, I don't think there is anything that could persuade me to abandon these internal convictions, and the belief that Jesus is from God and his teachings reflect the eternal Word of God.

None of these beliefs are based on the idea of the necessity of believing in an 'inerrant Bible', especially when, even if there were no internal contradictions, there are contradictions between the Bible and other areas of knowledge.


Now with all due respect, I have gone to great lengths to answer many of your questions, even when these questions are off-topic. To further avoid answering simple questions, even off-topic ones like Cmass', would seem to me to indicate you are not really interested in debate.

ALthough greatestiam has given one answer to the Matthew 27:9 reference, I would ask you to provide yours as well. Then we can get onto the other issues that are related to Biblical contradictions.

What do you base this belief on?

Biker

[Biker]

Rather than believing God's Word, you subscribe to and believe in human intellect, human reason, human logic, scientific interpretation, your own way. Your methodology has failed.

Alright, you have dodged this one multiple times, so let's see if you can answer this.

If you believe in a sun-centered solar system, you do so based upon reason. There is nothing in the Bible that would so much as suggest the earth moves. Quite the contrary.

If I am mistaken, then find me a Biblical passage from which you can conclude the earth moves and the sun stands still.

If you can't, then the unavoidable conclusion is that you have put reason over the Bible in this matter.

Please explain to me Your Biblical contradiction here?
You took the thread off, finish it.

Biker

[micatala]

Rather than believing God's Word, you subscribe to and believe in human intellect, human reason, human logic, scientific interpretation, your own way. Your methodology has failed.

Alright, you have dodged this one multiple times, so let's see if you can answer this.

If you believe in a sun-centered solar system, you do so based upon reason. There is nothing in the Bible that would so much as suggest the earth moves. Quite the contrary.

If I am mistaken, then find me a Biblical passage from which you can conclude the earth moves and the sun stands still.

If you can't, then the unavoidable conclusion is that you have put reason over the Bible in this matter.

Please explain to me Your Biblical contradiction here?
You took the thread off, finish it.

Biker

It is not a Biblical Contradiction. For the third time, I was responding to your claim that the Bible is more authoritative than human reason. That was the point. Since it is not on topic, I am not going to press the issue here.

For now, I am asking for an explanation of Matthew 27:9 and its reference to Jeremiah.

[Cmass]

How much time do you spend revolved around him? You know the one whos picture is in your posts?
By the shear number of silly threads you have started, not much!
Perhaps you should be more concerned by that revolution of bodies?

This was in bad taste.

[micatala]

Moderator Note

How much time do you spend revolved around him? You know the one whos picture is in your posts?
By the shear number of silly threads you have started, not much!
Perhaps you should be more concerned by that revolution of bodies?

I have been a part of this forum for a while now and have seen a fair number of obnoxious, personal attacks - some thrown directly at me. Most make me chuckle and slide off my back. I have never lodged a complaint against another member and realize that many comments are made in haste. However, the above comment crosses the line.

Your speculation and commentary on my relationship with my 21 month old son is disgusting, inappropriate and mean-spirited.
I intend to lodge a formal complaint against you.
Further, I am disappointed the moderators appear more concerned about staying on topic than the above comment.

Congratulations, you have crossed a line nobody else in this forum has ever come close to crossing.

- Chris[/b]

I will bring the issue up with the other moderators.

Please do not respond to this post, or further discuss the issue within the thread. PM's can certainly be made to me or another moderator.

[Biker]

CMASS
You can hand it out. But you can't take it. You started it. You came in this thread with one intention, flamebait, off topic.
I have looked at your threads you have started about 31 in total, and you say I have bad taste. You flamebait all day long everyday. When someone calls you on it you cry, bohoho.
Go back to your threads such as:Does Jesus have time for you in heaven or Is heaven fun when you know your mom is in Hell, or naming Biblical actions that have always been immoral. And then ridicule people for their faith, as usual.
It was a legitimate question I asked, I know I raised 2 sons, evidently it must hit home. I stand by my question about the su(o)n.

Biker

[Cathar1950]

CMASS
You can hand it out. But you can't take it. You started it. You came in this thread with one intention, flamebait, off topic.
I have looked at your threads you have started about 31 in total, and you say I have bad taste. You flamebait all day long everyday. When someone calls you on it you cry, bohoho.
Go back to your threads such as:Does Jesus have time for you in heaven or Is heaven fun when you know your mom is in Hell, or naming Biblical actions that have always been immoral. And then ridicule people for their faith, as usual.
It was a legitimate question I asked, I know I raised 2 sons, evidently it must hit home. I stand by my question about the su(o)n.

Biker

I think you were asked to adress this issue in PM.
But it is not a ligitamate question for this or any thread.
What you said was that he did not spend enought time with his son because he starts silly threads and the question was just a ruse.
So let's get back on topic.

We are hardly done with bible propblems and contradictions.

[micatala]

Moderator Intervention

Biker and Cmass. Do not continue to use the thread to make personal comments, accusations of misbehavior, or discussion of moderator action or inaction.