Ok. I looked over the last few pages of topics and I couldn't find one dedicated to this discussion (much to my surprise). Therefore I am starting it.
What are the biblical contradictions which the atheists keep refering to and what are the answers by apologists.
Ready, set . . . GO!
Biblical Contradictions
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- achilles12604
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Biblical Contradictions
Post #1
Last edited by achilles12604 on Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
- McCulloch
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Post #1171
Interesting choice of words. Voodoo, Informal: Usually Disparaging. characterized by deceptively simple, almost magical, solutions or ideas: voodoo politics. Which interpretation of data is closer to being deceptively simple or magical? The Earth came into existence by a long natural process that is not yet fully understood or the Earth was spoken into existence in a single day by the Father God?Biker wrote:You and the "science" crowd have nothing but voodoo interpretation of some data. The science crowd is the posterchild for conjecture/speculation, and you have to have faith in greater degree to believe the voodoo of the "scientific" origin of life "poof, bang" there it is?
Yes. Why not?Biker wrote:Rather than the Biblical account of creation, especially since Jesus Himself affirmed it! Jesus affirmed the Genesis account of creation, whats your problem? I'm supposed to believe some 20th century "scientist" over Jesus Christ?
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
- Cathar1950
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Post #1172
No you have taken the word of what unknown authors have said about Jesus over science reason and history.Biker wrote:
Rather than the Biblical account of creation, especially since Jesus Himself affirmed it! Jesus affirmed the Genesis account of creation, whats your problem? I'm supposed to believe some 20th century "scientist" over Jesus Christ?
LightGrenade04 in another thread wrote:
Fundamentalism is actually an ultra-conservative theological movement/orientation that began in the 19th and early 20th centuries with the thought of people like Dwight Moody and John Darby within the collective umbrella of Evangelical Protestantism. There is no explicitly established "fundamentalist" denomination nor does any singular institution or individual speak for "fundamentalism"; however, various doctrines or beliefs unite them. Such as:
*Biblical inerrancy along with a dispensationalist-literalist hermeneutic - hence, their adherence to creationism (especially young earth creationism) and universal flood geology
*Penal substitutionary atonement - hence, their highly wrathful conception of God
*Some version of Millenialism - hence, the plethora of End Times prognosticators and awful novels like the Left Behind series
Maybe you just a cultish unnatural irrational man in denial when you say your not a fundamentalist?"But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no man."
"Let no man deceive himself.
If any man among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become foolish that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God."
Logic? What logic? Mans logic will get you nowhere fast, in the things that matter.
I suggest if you want real truth, logic, go to the source! The Bible, the 66 volume Bible.
Biker
Re: John 10:35
Post #1173I'm sure you have been told before, and the information is widely available. But to make it easier for you..you view that the bible is the word of god because it says so in the bible and the bible is the word of god is clearly a case where the premise presupposes the conclusion...Biker wrote:Biker wrote: How is it "fallacious argument'?Just as I thought, nonsense. Tell me how do you knowIf you have to ask why a circularity is a fallacious argument there is no point in answering.
it is a fallacy whether you like it or not.
Without a doubt.Biker wrote:Are you sure?Bernee wrote: he/she/it doesn't exist?
"Whatever you are totally ignorant of, assert to be the explanation of everything else"
William James quoting Dr. Hodgson
"When I see I am nothing, that is wisdom. When I see I am everything, that is love. My life is a movement between these two."
Nisargadatta Maharaj
William James quoting Dr. Hodgson
"When I see I am nothing, that is wisdom. When I see I am everything, that is love. My life is a movement between these two."
Nisargadatta Maharaj
Re: John 10:35
Post #1174I suppose that in most instances of common knowledge, the premise presupposes the conclusion argument may apply, but in the case of the Word of God, it does not. For, if you have the authoritative document, given by the authoritative being, who created everything seen and unseen, who existed before everything, where everything was created by and for Him, and we have His Word to mankind.bernee51 wrote:I'm sure you have been told before, and the information is widely available. But to make it easier for you..you view that the bible is the word of god because it says so in the bible and the bible is the word of god is clearly a case where the premise presupposes the conclusion...Biker wrote:Biker wrote: How is it "fallacious argument'?Just as I thought, nonsense. Tell me how do you knowIf you have to ask why a circularity is a fallacious argument there is no point in answering.
it is a fallacy whether you like it or not.
Without a doubt.Biker wrote:Are you sure?Bernee wrote: he/she/it doesn't exist?
Where would one appeal?
The words of Scripture are self attesting. They cannot be "proved" to be Gods words by appeal to any higher authority. There is no higher authority. When one has the highest or absolute authority such as the Word of God, it would be subordinating the authority of Scripture to the thing to which we appeal to prove it to be Gods Word. If we ultimately appeal to human reason, or to logic, or to historical accuracy, or to scientific truth, as the authority by which Scripture is shown to be Gods Words, then we have assumed the thing to which we appealed to be a higher authority than Gods words and one that is more true or more reliable. And Bernee you have made that assumption, and I can't, because the Bible has demonstrated that authority, which I cannot deny.
Biker
Post #1175
Cathar,Cathar1950 wrote:No you have taken the word of what unknown authors have said about Jesus over science reason and history.Biker wrote:
Rather than the Biblical account of creation, especially since Jesus Himself affirmed it! Jesus affirmed the Genesis account of creation, whats your problem? I'm supposed to believe some 20th century "scientist" over Jesus Christ?
LightGrenade04 in another thread wrote:Fundamentalism is actually an ultra-conservative theological movement/orientation that began in the 19th and early 20th centuries with the thought of people like Dwight Moody and John Darby within the collective umbrella of Evangelical Protestantism. There is no explicitly established "fundamentalist" denomination nor does any singular institution or individual speak for "fundamentalism"; however, various doctrines or beliefs unite them. Such as:
*Biblical inerrancy along with a dispensationalist-literalist hermeneutic - hence, their adherence to creationism (especially young earth creationism) and universal flood geology
*Penal substitutionary atonement - hence, their highly wrathful conception of God
*Some version of Millenialism - hence, the plethora of End Times prognosticators and awful novels like the Left Behind seriesMaybe you just a cultish unnatural irrational man in denial when you say your not a fundamentalist?"But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no man."
"Let no man deceive himself.
If any man among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become foolish that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God."
Logic? What logic? Mans logic will get you nowhere fast, in the things that matter.
I suggest if you want real truth, logic, go to the source! The Bible, the 66 volume Bible.
Biker
I quoted Scripture straight out of the Bible, it is not my idea but in fact is Gods. You can heed the advice, and wisdom in it or not. That is your choice, I would hope you would take it.
I have not read anything from Dwight Moody or John Darby? All of the descriptions listed of a certain type of belief system, don't describe my thoughts, especially the "wrathful conception of God", which I do not adhere to.
Biker
Biker
Re: John 10:35
Post #1176Your appeal is what is known as special pleading. Yet another fallacious argument. You are doing well. Wanna go for a triple?Biker wrote:I suppose that in most instances of common knowledge, the premise presupposes the conclusion argument may apply, but in the case of the Word of God, it does not. For, if you have the authoritative document, given by the authoritative being, who created everything seen and unseen, who existed before everything, where everything was created by and for Him, and we have His Word to mankind.bernee51 wrote:I'm sure you have been told before, and the information is widely available. But to make it easier for you..you view that the bible is the word of god because it says so in the bible and the bible is the word of god is clearly a case where the premise presupposes the conclusion...Biker wrote:Biker wrote: How is it "fallacious argument'?Just as I thought, nonsense. Tell me how do you knowIf you have to ask why a circularity is a fallacious argument there is no point in answering.
it is a fallacy whether you like it or not.
Without a doubt.Biker wrote:Are you sure?Bernee wrote: he/she/it doesn't exist?
Where would one appeal?
It is you who is making an assumption. i.e god exists. For you to claim the bible to be the word of god she/he/it MUST exist. You can assume it exists based on your beliefs.Biker wrote: The words of Scripture are self attesting. They cannot be "proved" to be Gods words by appeal to any higher authority. There is no higher authority. When one has the highest or absolute authority such as the Word of God, it would be subordinating the authority of Scripture to the thing to which we appeal to prove it to be Gods Word. If we ultimately appeal to human reason, or to logic, or to historical accuracy, or to scientific truth, as the authority by which Scripture is shown to be Gods Words, then we have assumed the thing to which we appealed to be a higher authority than Gods words and one that is more true or more reliable. And Bernee you have made that assumption, and I can't, because the Bible has demonstrated that authority, which I cannot deny.
Biker
I too am use logic and reason, and observation, (jnana...knowledge) and meditation and self-enquiry.
I do not start from a position..gods exists, from whence you start.
"Whatever you are totally ignorant of, assert to be the explanation of everything else"
William James quoting Dr. Hodgson
"When I see I am nothing, that is wisdom. When I see I am everything, that is love. My life is a movement between these two."
Nisargadatta Maharaj
William James quoting Dr. Hodgson
"When I see I am nothing, that is wisdom. When I see I am everything, that is love. My life is a movement between these two."
Nisargadatta Maharaj
- McCulloch
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Post #1177
I think that we are getting off topic. This is not a bad thing. This is a very important topic. Let's continue in a new thread: Why believe the Bible is from God?
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
Re: John 10:35
Post #1178Bernee,bernee51 wrote:Your appeal is what is known as special pleading. Yet another fallacious argument. You are doing well. Wanna go for a triple?Biker wrote:I suppose that in most instances of common knowledge, the premise presupposes the conclusion argument may apply, but in the case of the Word of God, it does not. For, if you have the authoritative document, given by the authoritative being, who created everything seen and unseen, who existed before everything, where everything was created by and for Him, and we have His Word to mankind.bernee51 wrote:I'm sure you have been told before, and the information is widely available. But to make it easier for you..you view that the bible is the word of god because it says so in the bible and the bible is the word of god is clearly a case where the premise presupposes the conclusion...Biker wrote:Biker wrote: How is it "fallacious argument'?Just as I thought, nonsense. Tell me how do you knowIf you have to ask why a circularity is a fallacious argument there is no point in answering.
it is a fallacy whether you like it or not.
Without a doubt.Biker wrote:Are you sure?Bernee wrote: he/she/it doesn't exist?
Where would one appeal?
It is you who is making an assumption. i.e god exists. For you to claim the bible to be the word of god she/he/it MUST exist. You can assume it exists based on your beliefs.Biker wrote: The words of Scripture are self attesting. They cannot be "proved" to be Gods words by appeal to any higher authority. There is no higher authority. When one has the highest or absolute authority such as the Word of God, it would be subordinating the authority of Scripture to the thing to which we appeal to prove it to be Gods Word. If we ultimately appeal to human reason, or to logic, or to historical accuracy, or to scientific truth, as the authority by which Scripture is shown to be Gods Words, then we have assumed the thing to which we appealed to be a higher authority than Gods words and one that is more true or more reliable. And Bernee you have made that assumption, and I can't, because the Bible has demonstrated that authority, which I cannot deny.
Biker
I too am use logic and reason, and observation, (jnana...knowledge) and meditation and self-enquiry.
I do not start from a position..gods exists, from whence you start.
From whence I started was a heathen. Which has nothing to do with with the authority of the Bible. It (the Bible) was the authority before I ever whenced! Or before you whenced. Your laundry list of things to appeal to cannot authenticate in this instance. How would a whencer authenticate the authentic with a non authentic. Or if a whencer has the authoritative document, with what would one authorize the authority with, other than the most authoritative. A whencer wouldn't whence with a lesser authority, to authorize the more authoritative! Hence a whencer whences with the most whenceable. In this whenceality, the Bible.
And oh by the way, your belief, "God doesn't exist", is self defeating!
Biker
Re: John 10:35
Post #1179It is still a fallacy.Biker wrote:Bernee,bernee51 wrote:Your appeal is what is known as special pleading. Yet another fallacious argument. You are doing well. Wanna go for a triple?Biker wrote:I suppose that in most instances of common knowledge, the premise presupposes the conclusion argument may apply, but in the case of the Word of God, it does not. For, if you have the authoritative document, given by the authoritative being, who created everything seen and unseen, who existed before everything, where everything was created by and for Him, and we have His Word to mankind.bernee51 wrote:I'm sure you have been told before, and the information is widely available. But to make it easier for you..you view that the bible is the word of god because it says so in the bible and the bible is the word of god is clearly a case where the premise presupposes the conclusion...Biker wrote:Biker wrote: How is it "fallacious argument'?Just as I thought, nonsense. Tell me how do you knowIf you have to ask why a circularity is a fallacious argument there is no point in answering.
it is a fallacy whether you like it or not.
Without a doubt.Biker wrote:Are you sure?Bernee wrote: he/she/it doesn't exist?
Where would one appeal?
It is you who is making an assumption. i.e god exists. For you to claim the bible to be the word of god she/he/it MUST exist. You can assume it exists based on your beliefs.Biker wrote: The words of Scripture are self attesting. They cannot be "proved" to be Gods words by appeal to any higher authority. There is no higher authority. When one has the highest or absolute authority such as the Word of God, it would be subordinating the authority of Scripture to the thing to which we appeal to prove it to be Gods Word. If we ultimately appeal to human reason, or to logic, or to historical accuracy, or to scientific truth, as the authority by which Scripture is shown to be Gods Words, then we have assumed the thing to which we appealed to be a higher authority than Gods words and one that is more true or more reliable. And Bernee you have made that assumption, and I can't, because the Bible has demonstrated that authority, which I cannot deny.
Biker
I too am use logic and reason, and observation, (jnana...knowledge) and meditation and self-enquiry.
I do not start from a position..gods exists, from whence you start.
From whence I started was a heathen. Which has nothing to do with with the authority of the Bible. It (the Bible) was the authority before I ever whenced! Or before you whenced. Your laundry list of things to appeal to cannot authenticate in this instance. How would a whencer authenticate the authentic with a non authentic. Or if a whencer has the authoritative document, with what would one authorize the authority with, other than the most authoritative. A whencer wouldn't whence with a lesser authority, to authorize the more authoritative! Hence a whencer whences with the most whenceable. In this whenceality, the Bible.
How so?Biker wrote:[
And oh by the way, your belief, "God doesn't exist", is self defeating!
Biker
(I was tempted to say - read my sig...thre is no self to defeat.)
"Whatever you are totally ignorant of, assert to be the explanation of everything else"
William James quoting Dr. Hodgson
"When I see I am nothing, that is wisdom. When I see I am everything, that is love. My life is a movement between these two."
Nisargadatta Maharaj
William James quoting Dr. Hodgson
"When I see I am nothing, that is wisdom. When I see I am everything, that is love. My life is a movement between these two."
Nisargadatta Maharaj
- McCulloch
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Post #1180
Reminder from a Moderator
The topic of this debate thread is Biblical Contradictions.
The topic of this debate thread is Biblical Contradictions.
achilles12604 wrote:What are the biblical contradictions which the atheists keep referring to and what are the answers by apologists.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John