[
Replying to post 14 by ttruscott]
As I explained in post # 8
The rest of your comments in your post are not directly relevant to the thread topic, as the topic is not about condemnation and hell, and I do not wish the topic to change course from its intended path to that degree. I want to stay focused upon the reason why some of the angels rebelled, chose to create trouble for humans, were permitted by YHWH to do so, and how it is possible for spiritual beings (sons of GOD as they are referred to) to mate with physical beings. Stuff like that...directly to do with subject post I linked to in the OP.
I can see by your particular take on things that your theology is built around the concept of HELL, so without HELL, your theology doesn't stand up to the scrutiny of critical thinking and logic - which is essentially WHY you cannot stay within the focus I mention in the above quote.
My focus is on the questions I have asked and no one involved within any of Christendoms many sects seems able to answer because their whole belief systems revolve around the separation of GOD-Consciousness from all other consciousnesses, even that within the bible there is more than enough hint that it is GOD-consciousness which animates all forms - be they spiritual or physical.
The time flow in my scenario is:
- GOD made everyone - all spirits in HIS image
Please explain as succinctly as possible exactly what you believe this means.
Given that GOD is regarded as Spirit, this should signify that there is no difference between GOD as spirit and all other spirits, as all spirit derives from the one Spirit. It does not say that GOD gathered 'spirits' from other sources unconnected with GOD.
(In other words, the bible does not say that GOD gathers consciousnesses from other sources unconnected with GOD.)
This is also connected to the story of that GOD 'breathing life' into the form of Adam. This symbolically signifies that Adam was an aspect of GOD-life (consciousness/spirit) within human form.
- we then chose for HIM or against HiS claims to be our GOD
This implies that this was the
reason why GOD placed aspects of
Itself (sorry but I find it a strictly human construct to apply gender to GOD) into forms of varying densities.
I find it more appropriate to think that GOD places aspects of Itself (supernatural)
into forms of varying densities for the purpose of experience.
(There is also a process to this, which I expand upon in the topic linked below;)
♦
The Earth Entity
GOD (First Source) doe this, NOT because GOD wanted to be seen to be the object of worship
by aspects of itself which were - through the properties of those forms of varying densities - cut off from that immediate knowledge.
To my understanding, such a theology studied from a neutral position rather than from a position of belief, manifests in the mind of the student, an idea of a vain-glorious being, which of course accompanies the immaturity of the juvenile.
Which is also to say that such a theology is, naturally enough, supported by the same types of individuals.
The more mature approach is to understand that GOD placed aspects of Itself
into forms of varying densities in order to create individual beings who could share in the experience of being individual - together.
An illusion - but not one
intended in the first instance, to rid GOD of Its 'undesirable' aspects.
The 'undesirable' aspects came about/made their appearance
through that process but were then understood to being par for the course and non-permanent at that.
- GOD then created the physical universe
Which is a different density to the spiritual realm which came before and the spiritual realm - according to the story -has already begun to show signs of an undesirable reaction through some of the spiritual (supernatural) forms - form which are less dense than forms of the physical realm.
[To note: "Supernatural' is only seen to be that way from the perspective of those within the 'nature of the particular environment they are within' as in 'us' here in the physical universe contemplating the notion of a spiritual one. We think of the spiritual as being 'supernatural' because it is not of our own 'natural' universe.]
GOD created the physical universe as a means to deal with the problem of the reaction. The reaction was to do with the aspect of GOD-Consciousness in the various forms, some of which were differentiating their own consciousness with GOD-Consciousness and thus 'seeing' GOD as being 'different'. Depending on the individual reaction, some 'worshiped' GOD as something 'other than' themselves while others rejected that idea. The reactions were not black & white - as in 'either/or'. The reactions were varied.
From GODs perspective ALL reactions were aspects of Itself, reacting in various ways and understood for that - as quite natural enough. To judge any of it 'evil' is to judge Itself 'evil' - and this is equally true in reverse.
So
therein that process, GOD became aware of the knowledge of good and evil and understood
both to originate from within Itself but only seen (understood) in that way
because GOD created forms of varying densities and placed aspects of Its consciousness INTO those forms, and the reactions
then happened.
- and sent any who had rebelled against HIM at all to Prison Earth
Now if one was to view the physical universe from outside the physical universe before any
consciousness was placed into the universe, would one be able to define the physical universe (as a stand alone object), as either 'good or evil'?
I don't think so. It is just a place - a thing, an object. As such it is not good or evil - any more than any other thing - including
forms of varying densities are good or evil. They are
objects.
In this, I am saying that forms do not
make something good or evil - they (obviously) allow for
reaction. The reaction comes from that which can react - Consciousness is the only source of such reaction. Consciousness is that which
reacts. Forms are objects without any ability to react of their own volition.
If the idea of the physical universe being created, was in order to create a prison for wayward 'rebels' - the prison itself is not good or evil but could be regarded as being either, depending on the position of those observing it.
For those
not having to become a prisoner of it, it could be regarded as 'good' - not
only because they won't be experiencing it, but
also because it is going to contain those who will be experiencing it - it a manner which can potentially help them to remember who they essentially are - which is really
what they are rebelling against.
For those destined to be imprisoned there, the universe could be regarded as 'evil' because it is a more densified reality which will serious inhibit their movements and abilities.
However,
within the physical universe, their perceptions are altered as it is seen to contain good aspects and evil aspects together, and this is also dependent upon the each individuals own perceptions in their more densified forms - which in itself, is affected by their particular subjective experiences.
The individual is cut off from the conscious knowledge of prior existence, just as they were also cut of from the conscious knowledge of prior existence when they were placed into the less dense forms of the 'angelic'.
In relation to all this, it is important to understand that GOD as a 'stand alone' being -
prior to the creation of ANY form - was know
only to Itself, and not as a visible FORM. GOD is purely Consciousness.
(In that, (metaphorically) if GOD created a
mirror and looked into it for a reflection, GOD would see no
thing.)
This is to say that angelic beings did not
see GOD as any FORM. GOD was not in form.
Rather, GOD was
information. Rather, GOD was in the process of dwelling with
in formation.
It that, when GOD created form, the form was 'dead' until GOD placed aspects of Its own consciousness within those forms in order that the forms could 'live' but the forms are not really that which is
living. The forms are instruments in which GOD-Consciousness can experience living
through.
It does not matter that the form acts as a barrier to this - the full knowledge of GOD - or in that, that the consciousness within the forms wander far from this full knowledge - it only matters that the consciousness is SOURCED from GOD and cannot ever - no matter how 'far' away it wanders, be anything other than GOD at its
core identity.
(What identities the individual
assumes are all illusion if those identities are focused entirely upon the form.)
To end in hell, one must have sinned the unforgivable sin of ascribing YHWH's motives to evil or they would be saved!
(That is an interesting and contrary theology. We all know that Christendom has many differing beliefs regarding who goes to hell and who does not. )
In relation to my own understanding of the whole process, if hell is an
eternal place created for the containment of individual consciousnesses who are convinced that GODs motives are evil, then those conscious aspects
represent the aspect of GOD-Consciousness which believes that of
Itself.
Which of course is representative of
self doubt. Metaphorically self doubt can 'go to hell'.
In real terms the theology of eternal hell represents GODs doubt in Itself and
as long as hell exists as a place for those aspects of GOD- Consciousness which retain that doubt, then there will
always exist that
representation of GODs self doubt.
I personally don't ascribe to the theology (an eternal place called hell where individual consciousnesses are forever imprisoned) because it clearly represents not only GODs self doubt, but also GODs
inability to eradicate that aspect of self doubt and as long as hell is represented as somewhere that conscious beings exist
forever, those conscious beings are
literal aspects of GOD and thus GOD in those aspects has to be the very thing which gives the
life (consciousness) to
experience that situation. Literally, an aspect of GOD-consciousness which consigns itself to that fate forever. GOD, being GOD, cannot be
unconscious to that aspect of itself.
It is aligned to the metaphor "dealing with ones own demons' and in that, we cannot deal with those demons by
ignoring them (because they don't go away) or consigning them to some part of our consciousness where we can successfully ignore them enough to 'get on with our own lives'. We cannot sweep them under the carpet or pretend that they do not have anything to do with us.
The doctrine of an everlasting hell seeks to do this very thing and in doing so, creates a
substandard version (idea) of GOD which acts in the same way as a reflection in a lake disturbed by ripples.
In other words, a distorted image of the truth.
(In relation to the
mirror metaphor mentioned further back in this post.)
