Abortion

Illyricum · Post by **Illyricum** » Tue May 11, 2004 5:44 pm

What are you thoughts/opinions on abortion?

tcay584 · Post by **tcay584** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:23 pm

Yes, as a metter of fact, I don't agree that handing out condoms to teenagers is appropriate. All I'm arguing for is an acceptance that our actions have consequences. If we don't want to be "grown ups" and be responsible for our actions, then we should abstain from decisions with potentially undesireable consequences. I don't think a 13 year old is ready, emotionally, or physically for an intimate relationship. Do you?

Spongemom · Post by **Spongemom** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:25 pm

tcay584 wrote:The point you choose to ignore is that both the heart valve replacement and the cesarean section were performed to save lives, not destroy them. I wasn't making an argument condemning modern procedures that save lives (in accordance with the Hippocratic Oath). My problem is with those procedures (abortion, euthanasia, death penalty) that take a life unnaturally.

Many many medical procedures takes lives unnaturally. Are you ready to condemn the entire medical profession?

ENIGMA · Post by **ENIGMA** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:25 pm

tcay584 wrote:The point you choose to ignore is that both the heart valve replacement and the cesarean section were performed to save lives, not destroy them. I wasn't making an argument condemning modern procedures that save lives (in accordance with the Hippocratic Oath). My problem is with those procedures (abortion, euthanasia, death penalty) that take a life unnaturally.

What is it with this whole "unnatural" business?

Would it honestly have been that much better if the woman involved joined a kickboxing group in the hopes that one of the hits would cause a miscarriage?

Is it honestly worse a fate for the embryo to be aborted rather than naturally miscarried as is the fate of a large number of those that even get to that stage at all? Should we charge all women who have miscarried with involuntary manslaughter?

Spongemom · Post by **Spongemom** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:29 pm

tcay584 wrote:Yes, as a metter of fact, I don't agree that handing out condoms to teenagers is appropriate. All I'm arguing for is an acceptance that our actions have consequences. If we don't want to be "grown ups" and be responsible for our actions, then we should abstain from decisions with potentially undesireable consequences. I don't think a 13 year old is ready, emotionally, or physically for an intimate relationship. Do you?

No, I don't think a child that young is ready for sex. I do, however realize that 13 year olds are going to have sex whether someone tells them to or not, and that handing out condoms is a way of telling them that if they so choose, they can be safe in doing it. You can teach your child your morality all you want, but in the end, the decision is up to them. Great big pat on the back to all those who choose not to have sex, but in reality, sex is rampant in younger and younger kids these days. Why deny them protection? By not having protection readily available, and denying them sex education in school, you are inviting an unwanted pregnancy, not preventing one.

tcay584 · Post by **tcay584** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:30 pm

Spongemom,
Like what? I'm curious as to what medical practices deliberately (please understand this means that the lost life is the primary intention) take a life.
Enigma,
Any action taken so as to deliberately endanger or kill an unborn child is wrong. Do you not get the idea that the intent to harm (through any means...kickboxing, drug use, hiring someone to beat me up, etc) is the basis for the immorality? If a pregnant mom goes skiing and accidentally crashes and miscarries, that's different because the intent to cause deliberate harm is not there. Do you understand?

Spongemom · Post by **Spongemom** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:43 pm

tcay584 wrote:Spongemom,
Like what? I'm curious as to what medical practices deliberately (please understand this means that the lost life is the primary intention) take a life.

Those you listed, euthanasia, the death penalty, abortion, are all essentially necessary.

1.) Abortion. Unwanted pregnancies lead to unwanted children forever lengthening the list of those waiting for adoptive families. Why focus on a clump of cells in a woman's uterus, why not go out and grab up a few of those children already here?

2.) Death penalty. I don't necessarily agree with this one, but I do see its necessity. Rapists, child molestors, and the like, don't deserve the death penalty. I believe they deserve a punishment much, much worse. I won't go into detail, it would be far too graphic for this forum.

3.) Euthanasia. Applies to humans as well as animals. Humans deserve to die with dignity should they so choose. A person with cancer, for instance, who is told they have six months to live, at the most, and is likely to live those last six months in a hospital bed rotting in the stench of their own death, who would be cruel enough to deny them the choice to opt out? Who would want to make someone live like that? Do the people making their choices for them really want to see them rot away before their eyes?
What's wrong with dying with dignity?

Most anti-depressants have "suicidal tendencies" as a side effect. These, and many other drugs, have fatal side effects. Those consequences are known, and yet they are prescribed anyway, in the hopes that the benefit will outweigh the risk. Yet, when a life is taken this way, we don't consider it "on purpose" because it was a side effect of the drug. This, to me, is hypocritical beyond belief.

Spongemom · Post by **Spongemom** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:50 pm

Spongemom wrote:Fertility treatments, artificial insemnation, test tube babies...

Amadeus wrote:There is a difference though: those procedures HELP life, not harm it

That argument has been moved to this thread.

Sure, those procedures "help" life. But the argument that lead to this was "naturality", i.e. what is or is not natural. None of those procedures are natural. But Christians have them done all the time.

And in the case of fertility treatments, when a woman goes to the doctor for that, dozens of eggs are taken in an attempt to get one to stick. What happens to all the others? They are frozen, and if not used, they are destroyed. This is "helping life"?

Spongemom · Post by **Spongemom** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:03 pm

tcay584 wrote:Spongemom,
I question your live and let live statement because you would kill another for your own convenience. This is why we have moved this topic to the other forum, correct?

No, I would not "kill another for your own convenience", I don't see abortion as an option for me, with the exception of a rape. I simply believe that it is each woman's choice whether or not to procreate, NOT the choice of anyone else. Again, how is that not "live and let live", when I'm specifically stating that each person on this planet is entitled to make their own choices?

tcay584 · Post by **tcay584** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:12 pm

Because if you endorse the right of another person to kill, you are tacitly endorsing the view that it is OK for anyone to kill (an unborn child...please, no "if someone comes into my house with a gun scenarios). There cannot be one "truth" (I'm speaking of ultimate truth here) for one person and another "truth" for another person. Something is either right or it is wrong...regardless of who is doing it and what that person's ideas are.

tcay584 · Post by **tcay584** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:16 pm

Hi Spongemom,
Wow! It's been so invigorating chatting with you! However, I have to go to bed or I won't be up in the morning

Hope to see more posts from you, and others, tomorrow. God bless (whether you want it or not

)