Violence in Childrearing

[McCulloch]

Do not hold back discipline from the child,
Although you strike him with the rod, he will not die.
You shall strike him with the rod
And rescue his soul from Sheol.

Is there a place for physical violence as part of childrearing?

[otseng]

It depends on how you define "violence".

If you mean violence as in "abuse", then no, violence should not be a part of childrearing.

Though it can overlap, I would not consider disciplining to automatically be considered abuse. So, there is be a place for disciplining as a part of child-rearing.

[McCulloch]

It depends on how you define "violence".

In the context of the passage cited, striking someone with a rod but not enough to kill.

If you mean violence as in "abuse", then no, violence should not be a part of childrearing.

Though it can overlap, I would not consider disciplining to automatically be considered abuse. So, there is be a place for disciplining as a part of child-rearing.

That would depend on how you define "disciplining". There is no argument that discipline is a part of responsible parenting.
Does responsible parental disciplining include

1. striking with a rod causing injury?
2. striking with a rod not causing any injury but causing pain?
3. striking with another object; strap, brush, ruler or belt?
4. striking with open or closed hand?
5. striking on the head, face, hands, stomach, arm, buttocks?

[otseng]

In this context, I see discipline as training a child for good behavior. Techniques used in disciplining would include spanking a child on the bottom with a rod, but would also include others as well - timeouts, withdrawal of privileges, fines, etc.

Disciplining is not beating the daylights out of your kids when they do something wrong. If people view it like this, then of course this is not right.

Like all things, there are extremes. If anything is done to an extreme, then it can be wrong. Abusing children is obviously wrong. And I'm against all forms of child abuse. But, that doesn't mean that there cannot be a more moderate and acceptable form of disciplining.

From what I gather, it is only recently (more specifically this generation) that physical discipline is considered wrong. When I went to elementary school, the principal's rod was feared by most all the kids. So, it is only a recent phenomenon that physical discipline is considered bad. And from what I can tell, for millennias prior, it was not considered wrong, even across different cultures. So, physical discipline has been a part of parenting for most of history all around the world. Are we then to say that all those parents were not responsible parents?

The only part I can agree on is that abusing your child would be irresponsible. However, disciplining your child would be considered responsible.

[McCulloch]

Abusing children is obviously wrong. And I'm against all forms of child abuse. [...]
The only part I can agree on is that abusing your child would be irresponsible. However, disciplining your child would be considered responsible.

I am glad to hear that you are against all forms of child abuse. But I fear that it does nothing to advance the discussion. You would be hard pressed to find someone who admits that they believe that child abuse is a good thing.

Some would say that striking a child with a rod is abusing her. You apparently disagree. If I were to strike you with a rod, you would be correct to call it violence. You seem to be indicating that violence (with limitations) is an appropriate parental action. But it sound so much better when you call it physical discipline.

[otseng]

You would be hard pressed to find someone who admits that they believe that child abuse is a good thing.

Of course. Why would anyone say that?

Some would say that striking a child with a rod is abusing her.

Sure, some might.

If I were to strike you with a rod, you would be correct to call it violence.

There are several differences. One, you are not an authority figure over me. Two, it is not associated with a consequence of an offense.

Would caning in Singapore be considered a violent act?

You seem to be indicating that violence (with limitations) is an appropriate parental action. But it sound so much better when you call it physical discipline.

That's because I don't view it as violence.

I've also presented my argument that discipline is a part of responsible parenting. It has been an accepted practice for most of history and across many nations. What is your argument that discipline is not a part of responsible parenting?

[methylatedghosts]

Ok guys, I'll be the one to jump straight in and declare that any form of discipline that goes beyond "go to your room" is unnecessary. I firmly believe there is absolutely NO need to hit a child to discipline him/her.

It can be confusing for the child. E.g. A boy hits his sister with a stick, making her cry, because she wasn't doing what he wanted her to (like building a sandcastle). Now, mum comes in and hits him, while saying "Don't hit your sister"......

Seems kinda backwards to me. And I realise this isn't every situation, and sometimes people have no idea what else to do.

But there you go. I am fully against using violence (or physical discipline ) against a child for disciplinary purposes.

Let the debate begin. (I'll try and be on as much as possible......)

[Confused]

Ok guys, I'll be the one to jump straight in and declare that any form of discipline that goes beyond "go to your room" is unnecessary. I firmly believe there is absolutely NO need to hit a child to discipline him/her.

It can be confusing for the child. E.g. A boy hits his sister with a stick, making her cry, because she wasn't doing what he wanted her to (like building a sandcastle). Now, mum comes in and hits him, while saying "Don't hit your sister"......

Seems kinda backwards to me. And I realise this isn't every situation, and sometimes people have no idea what else to do.

But there you go. I am fully against using violence (or physical discipline ) against a child for disciplinary purposes.

Let the debate begin. (I'll try and be on as much as possible......)

For once, I think I disagree with you. There are times when a child needs to know who is boss and who isn't. Time outs are appropriate in some situation, as are alternative means. I know I have had to be very creative with my son because he doesn't respond to negative reinforcement. But there are still some times when he needs to be reminded that he can get away with some stuff at school because they have to be politically correct, but at home, you will he held accountable for your actions. Now mostly, withdrawing his bike riding privilidges or his play station, or his jigsaw puzzles work. But there are times that though I know spanking him will lead to a melt down, he needs to be reminded that in this house, everyone has just as much rights as he does. I think there is a certain amount of fear as well as respect a child must have for their parents. If they don't fear disappointing you, then they should fear the punishment for doing something wrong.

[4gold]

Do not hold back discipline from the child,
Although you strike him with the rod, he will not die.
You shall strike him with the rod
And rescue his soul from Sheol.

Is there a place for physical violence as part of childrearing?

Someday when I have kids, I am certainly going to give them spankings! Give 'em enough to make em cry, but stop before it does any damage.

[McCulloch]

Someday when I have kids, I am certainly going to give them spankings! Give 'em enough to make em cry, but stop before it does any damage.

Well, that proves it is the right thing!