Santa, do Christians believe in him? If not, why not.

[dangerdan]

Ok, you're probably wondering what Santa has to do with Christianity? bear with me here....

The topic of Santa was brought up in the thread "Everyone should be agnostic?, and with it brought some interesting topics to do with belief systems, well worthy of a new thread.

Now why is this in a Christianity forum? I think it has some rich insights into Christian epistemology - why they believe in some things and not others. I was pondering putting this in the philosophy sub-forum, but I feel it’s more relating to pure Christian thought (though if moderators feel otherwise then that's ok).

So, let the debate begin! I do not intend the question to be demeaning or disrespectful, but merely a candid enquiry. So with no further ado - Do Christians believe in Santa? If not, why not.

[chrispalasz]

It is impossible to be able and not be able to do something at the same time. Either he knows how and can do, or he does not know how to convince and can not do it, which takes away 2 of his omnis.

Sorry. You're right. I said it in a confusing way. The meaning intended is not contridictary though.

He knows how. He can do it.

I can't allow myself to answer this without explanation or people will get the wrong idea. What is life about? Life is about God. Everything in life and existance runs according to a plan. There are two perspectives. We should never confuse the two.

1) God's perspective

2) Our perspective (In other words: The perspective of humans)

God's perspective: God is the Creator of everything. God knows everything. He is all powerful. He is ever-living and active in our lives and the universe. He is perfect. He is Good. He is Love. He is truth. He is everywhere. He is timeless. Everything is going according to His plan. Everything is according to God's Sovereign Choice (Read Romans 9). God created some that, because their hearts are hard, they will never accept Him (Isaiah 6:8-13) and in fact are not capable of doing so. God created others who were chosen before the foundation of the world (Romans 8:29-30) to accept Him so that He could bring upon them the Salvation of Jesus Christ. Those He created for salvation are not better than those He created for destruction. All are transgressors of the Law and all deserve to perish (Romans 3:23), but to His Glory, because of His Grace and Love and to demonstrate His great Mercy, He brings some to Salvation.

Our Perspective: We are not God. We do not know what He knows. God reveals to us what He chooses when He chooses. God does not exist for us, we exist for God. We do not know God's Plan in its entirity... we only know what He has promised according to the Bible. Everything happens in due time, as God has preset, and His perfect plan will unfold. We do have Free Will. We have the Free Will to choose what God created us with the capability of choosing. We as humans should never attempt to step into God's shoes and make judgments or receive glory. These things are reserved for Him alone. Rather, from knowing Him, we love Him and take great joy in being obedient through that love. After all... we don't deserve anything but His wrath.

I fully confess that I, for one, am a sinner. And I profess to know nothing but God. All Glory and Praises go to Him. If you are curious... if you are hungry... if you want to know more... if you want to be proven right, or proven wrong... pray. Pray about these things. We are all sinners and we all deserve eternal judgement for rejecting the one who purposed us. And by God's Grace, He, born as Jesus the Christ, came to this earth and suffered the penalty for our sins. He took the wrath upon Himself... for OUR sake. He, who committed no sin and did no wrong, tortured and took the punishment. Now, all that needs to be done is for you to choose to accept this payment for your sins. If you accept Him, He will come to you. He will speak to you, and you will be made new: redeemed, and bought at a price.

That is all I have to say. Feel free to send me a PM message if you have any questions or want to know more.

[Arch]

God created some that, because their hearts are hard, they will never accept Him (Isaiah 6:8-13) and in fact are not capable of doing so. God created others who were chosen before the foundation of the world (Romans 8:29-30) to accept Him so that He could bring upon them the Salvation of Jesus Christ. Those He created for salvation are not better than those He created for destruction.

So you are saying GOD created some people to go to hell and God created other people to go to heaven. What sense does that make? That's cruelty.

So God created people destined to goto hell to be tortured for all eternity, simple because he made them that way. Do you realize that in this statement you just basically said that GOD created people incapable of accepting him?

So God created people with hard hearts so that there would be some people to put in hell?

I guesss he had to make somebody to put in hell, since he made hell. It would be useless to have a hell with no one to put in it . That's like a Barbie dreamhouse with no Barbie dolls.

[Amadeus]

Please remember:

God made Hell to punish Satan and his angels. We just end up there because we decided to rebel to. But originally (before Adam and Eve and Everything) It was for the fallen angels.

[concerro]

Please remember:

God made Hell to punish Satan and his angels. We just end up there because we decided to rebel to. But originally (before Adam and Eve and Everything) It was for the fallen angels.

It sounds like you are saying God did not intend for us to be there. God is supposedly all powerful. I am sure if I was all powerful and I did not intend for something to happen it would not happen. The Adam and Eve excuse is no good because there is a verse in the bible where it says men will not be punished for their fathers

[Arch]

Please remember:

God made Hell to punish Satan and his angels. We just end up there because we decided to rebel to. But originally (before Adam and Eve and Everything) It was for the fallen angels.

It sounds like you are saying God did not intend for us to be there. God is supposedly all powerful. I am sure if I was all powerful and I did not intend for something to happen it would not happen. The Adam and Eve excuse is no good because there is a verse in the bible where it says men will not be punished for their fathers

Yep that's right here is that verse concerro

2 Chronicles 25:4
But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin.

[Amadeus]

How does that have anything to do with what I said? Yes, that verse is there, and yes, we are no longer punished for the sins of our fathers. I was just stating that that is when we (as the human race) decided to rebel against God.

Also, I didn't mean God INTENDED for humans to end up in Hell. He may have known it would happen, but He did not cause it to happen. He gave us the choice and we chose wrong.

[chrispalasz]

We go to Hell because we are sinners. God is Just. In order for there to be justice, we must pay for our sins until we are free from debt. Because we are sinful by nature, we can never repay our debt. We are sinners because we were decieved by Satan. God, being Eternal, Good and Merciful, has taken our punishment through His Son Jesus Christ. He died on the cross for us and was sinless. He paid the debt that we could not pay. Now all we must do is accept His sacrifice.

What is not clear?

God does have control of all Evil. He is God, after all, and we could not possably be assured of salvation if He did not (Job 1:6-12; Matthew 4:1-11; Luke 22:31-32).

The mysteries of good and evil are very numerous. We only know what the Bible says about it. The rest is philisophical and unimportant. But... if you like that sort of thing, then go ahead and think about it. Two good sources are:

St. Augustine: The Problem of Good and Evil (very awesome book)
St. Thomas Aquinas: Summa Theologica (He tackles the issue)

[bernee51]

We only know what the Bible says about it. The rest is philisophical and unimportant.

Of everything you have said concerning your beliefs, this last comment tells it all.

The writings of the greatest philosophers the world has known (to date) count for nought next to a book of myth of uncertain authoring and authority.

Amazing!

[concerro]

How does that have anything to do with what I said? Yes, that verse is there, and yes, we are no longer punished for the sins of our fathers. I was just stating that that is when we (as the human race) decided to rebel against God.

We are no longer punished? If is is unfair why did it ever happen, and if it is fair why does it still not happen? Either God is wrong then or he is wrong now. Either way him being wrong throws that perfection theory out the window.

Also, I didn't mean God INTENDED for humans to end up in Hell. He may have known it would happen, but He did not cause it to happen. He gave us the choice and we chose wrong.

God knew before he made us that we were not up to his expectations so what was the point in continuing? that is like someone intentionally creating a substandard product and then getting mad when it fails. if a person did that they would be considered stupid or crazy but God does it and it is ok.

Considering that my eternal life was taken because of Adam how did I get a choice in anything. Why does God require sacrafice anyway. Killing an animal or a person(jesus's sham scarafice) does not change the fact that you did something wrong. If someone slaps my face and kills a cockroach for me am I supposed to be their friend?

[concerro]

We go to Hell because we are sinners. God is Just. In order for there to be justice, we must pay for our sins until we are free from debt. Because we are sinful by nature, we can never repay our debt. We are sinners because we were decieved by Satan. God, being Eternal, Good and Merciful, has taken our punishment through His Son Jesus Christ. He died on the cross for us and was sinless. He paid the debt that we could not pay. Now all we must do is accept His sacrifice.

What is not clear?

God is just.....we can never repay our sins(in bold print above)
The fact that I wont live forever because of Adam counters that, just argument. I am sure I can find more if neccesary, and I consider that statement in bold print to be illogical

God does have control of all Evil. He is God, after all, and we could not possably be assured of salvation if He did not (Job 1:6-12; Matthew 4:1-11; Luke 22:31-32).

If God had control of evil there woudl be no evil. Since God in the creator of everyting supposedly then evil came from God also. How can evil come from a perfect and just being.