Sinning

[Mr.Badham]

As an atheist, I cannot sin. I don't believe there are such things as "sins".

I know what I believe to be good and bad, and I don't have a real problem doing what I believe to be good, and I don't have a real problem not doing what I believe to be bad.

I am under no threat of eternal damnation, cause I don't believe in it.

So seriously, if you believe that your eternal soul could possibly be damned for all time, wouldn't it be easy not to sin?

[ttruscott]

As an atheist, I cannot sin. I don't believe there are such things as "sins".

I know what I believe to be good and bad, and I don't have a real problem doing what I believe to be good, and I don't have a real problem not doing what I believe to be bad.

I am under no threat of eternal damnation, cause I don't believe in it.

So seriously, if you believe that your eternal soul could possibly be damned for all time, wouldn't it be easy not to sin?

Does not such an attitude claim your belief creates reality? If it does not, I cannot see how.

[Hector Barbosa]

[Replying to post 11 by ttruscott]

Good point! And most science I have read, scientists I have talked to and experiences I have had supports your point. The main argument you might find against it, is in outdated text books or with people who do not "believe" this either because they have not done much research or prefer not to be responsible for what they believe, which only strengthens the argument

[amortalman]

[Replying to post 1 by Mr.Badham]

Mr. Badham,

That's an interesting post! For the record, I'm a former evangelical Christian turned agnostic. In his book, Atheism Bites by Daniel Ramalho, he states that "An agnostic is an atheist in regard to all gods except for the one he doubts." That sums up pretty well by position right now. So, with my layman Biblical knowledge and 15+ years experience as an active church member, ordained deacon, and Bible teacher I would like to play the devil's advocate (convoluted pun intended) for a moment. So here is how my former self might have responded to your post. It might reveal some flaws either in your logic or, more probably, in the way you presented your position.

As an atheist, I cannot sin. I don't believe there are such things as "sins".

Your unbelief of a proposition does not make an impossibility of it. You might not believe your neighbor's Pit Bull Terrier is aggressive and bites even though your neighbor warned you, but you could obviously be wrong in your belief, risking serious injury.

I know what I believe to be good and bad, and I don't have a real problem doing what I believe to be good, and I don't have a real problem not doing what I believe to be bad.

Again, it is not what you "believe" but what is so. So, what you're doing is, you're taking upon yourself to decide what is good or bad, what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. That position might serve you quite well, as long as it doesn't harm others or violate the laws of society. I'm sure you're a sane, level headed, moral person, but could you recommend your philosophy to everyone? Christianity, at least ideally, grounds its followers in a common morality beneficial to all.

Perhaps you aren't having any problems doing what's right and not doing what's wrong because you recognize no opposing view. You're under no conviction. You recognize no moral law outside yourself. This was the problem the Apostle Paul struggled with in Romans Ch. 7 when he discovered God's commandments. Only then did he find it very difficult, even impossible, to always do what was right and always not do what was wrong.

So seriously, if you believe that your eternal soul could possibly be damned for all time, wouldn't it be easy not to sin?

Your question comes from a misunderstanding of what Christianity is all about. As a former Christian, I can confidently say that there are people (I was one) who sincerely believe in eternal punishment for unforgiven sins and still sin every day in some way. For most, the sins are small and even unintentional. And for most, it's a real daily struggle.

In Christianity, the issue isn't sinning because everyone sins (falls short of God's standards) and no one can live perfectly righteous lives before a perfectly righteous God. The issue is whether or not one has forgiveness of his sins through faith in Jesus Christ.

[Divine Insight]

In Christianity, the issue isn't sinning because everyone sins (falls short of God's standards) and no one can live perfectly righteous lives before a perfectly righteous God. The issue is whether or not one has forgiveness of his sins through faith in Jesus Christ.

This is exactly what the church would like for people to believe. This easily makes everyone guilty of not being perfect, and in dire need of salvation.

Your question comes from a misunderstanding of what Christianity is all about. As a former Christian, I can confidently say that there are people (I was one) who sincerely believe in eternal punishment for unforgiven sins and still sin every day in some way. For most, the sins are small and even unintentional. And for most, it's a real daily struggle.

Actually unintentional sins are impossible to commit. At least for informed believers who supposedly know what God's laws are.

A case in point. Can you "murder" someone unintentionally? No of course not. If you kill someone without intending to do so it can hardly be considered murder. It would clearly be an accident. You can only commit the sin of murder intentionally.

Since requires "intent".

Therefore it's not possible to commit endless "unintentional sins". You are either intending to disobey God or you aren't. In fact, that's what sin actually means in this religion - willful and intentional disobedience of God. You can hardly be charged with willfully disobeying God if you don't even know what God's laws are.

We may have a secular law that states that ignorance of the law is no excuse, but in this religion that can't hold. If a Christian honestly doesn't know that what they are doing is against the will of God then they can hardly be charged with "sinning" against God.

This religion is founded on so many oxyrmorons it's seriously hard to believe that the masses haven't realized it's a scam yet. Although more and more people are catching on in today's modern world.

[Mr.Badham]

[Replying to post 1 by Mr.Badham]

I think as a atheist, you have misunderstood the concept of "sin" if you claim that you can not "sin". Sin is defined as "an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law." and this law applies to everyone no matter what you believe, since morality is the same for everyone, and if there is a God then his laws apply to everyone as everyone depend on God for existence.

I do not believe in divinity, therefore there can be no transgression.
Morality is not the same for everyone.
There is no god.

Now you may not believe in God or in sin, but that does not mean that you are not capable of immoral acts or sinning.
In fact there is sin in your very argument. For sin is both in thought and purpose as well as action. Even pride which everyone has felt at some point or another is sin, and so is irrational fear, jealousy, to covet etc...who has not known such feelings?

I disagree. Pride is not a sin, neither is irrational fear, jealousy, coveting etc.
Wait, do you have some ambiguous scripture or other you wish to quote now? Cause I won't believe what you say there either.

You say you know what you believe is good or bad, and have no problem doing what YOU believe to be good. But how far up do you put that scale? What importance does your beliefs have as far as morality, sin or good or bad goes?
Are you capable of produce ultimate good or assure good for yourself and everyone else? I don't think so, and so you can not be the authority on what is good or bad, for you do not know everything and can not create ultimate good or prevent evil.

No, I am not able to produce ultimate good or assure it for others. Great point!!!!!! (the exclamation points are sarcastic) Your so called god hasn't even done that. WTF?!!!

You write "I am under no threat of eternal damnation, cause I don't believe in it."
Not to be rude, but that is utter nonsense. Damnation has nothing to do with what you believe. The word "Damn" like a physical dam, implies limit to progress.
And if you have set your bar so low as to what is good or bad, that you find no challenge living it, then your progress IS damned right now, whether you believe in God or not.

You and I are under the same threat by the gods ISIS worship. Are you worried? Me neither.

So to answer your questions, there is no argument which can succeed defending the claim that to avoid sin is easy.

For the bar is perfection, constant progression, good without evil, something no man has achieved.....so shake yourself out of your comfy couch mate, and try to raise the bar a bit, open your eyes and set for higher targets....for if you can not think of any way that you or this world can get any better, then you don't see anything at all.

"Lottery is a tax on the stupid". I believe that, that's why I don't play the lottery. Smoking will give you lung cancer. I believe that, that's why I don't smoke.
If you've ever had premarital sex, it's cause you don't believe it will send you to hell. If you don't believe premarital sex will send you to hell, it's cause you're not a Christian.
I eat pork, I'm not Jewish. I drink alcohol, I'm not Islamic

[Mr.Badham]

As an atheist, I cannot sin. I don't believe there are such things as "sins".

I know what I believe to be good and bad, and I don't have a real problem doing what I believe to be good, and I don't have a real problem not doing what I believe to be bad.

I am under no threat of eternal damnation, cause I don't believe in it.

So seriously, if you believe that your eternal soul could possibly be damned for all time, wouldn't it be easy not to sin?

Does not such an attitude claim your belief creates reality? If it does not, I cannot see how.

In order to sin, there must be someone to sin against.... god. I simply don't believe there is anyone to sin against.

As far as creating reality, I have no idea what you mean by that?

[ttruscott]

I do not believe in divinity, therefore there can be no transgression.

Your belief DOES create reality!!!??? Wow - wish mine did...no wait a minute...no I do not.

[Mr.Badham]

[Replying to post 12 by Hector Barbosa]

I would say the exact opposite. I am completely responsible for what I believe. I have no scripture written by anonymous to live by. I live and learn. Your doubt of my ability to behave morally says more about you.

[Mr.Badham]

I do not believe in divinity, therefore there can be no transgression.

Your belief DOES create reality!!!??? Wow - wish mine did...no wait a minute...no I do not.

What do you mean, create reality?

[Mr.Badham]

[Replying to post 13 by amortalman]

No, you're incorrect. The problem isn't whether or not I'm incorrect about my belief, but whether or not I actually do what I say I believe. So, as far as the next door neighbor's dog; It may or may not bite me. It only matters that I act in accordance to what I say I believe about the dog.

I cannot claim to believe premarital sex is wrong and will lead to eternal hell and then have premarital sex. It would mean that I either didn't understand what hell was, what premarital sex was, or believe that it was a sin. Claiming any of these 3 things would mean that I was an idiot or wasn't a Christian.