Jesus did not resurrect himself , It was God who resurrected him.
agree , disagree?
Jesus didnot resurrect himself.
Moderator: Moderators
Re: Jesus didnot resurrect himself.
Post #31[Replying to post 30 by onewithhim]
[center]I think that you think what I think that you think, don't you think?
Part One[/center]
I love to answer questions. In fact I just love questions all around.
They are a great way to get answers !!
Tell me if that was a question, and I will give you a very thoughtful reply.
You get the Big Green Blastcat Guarantee© on that one.
Do I disappoint?
Seems a bit long, don't you think?
Some of us are going to die.
_________________
FOR THE RECORD:
No.
I don't want to engage in a never-ending back-and-forth as well. A simple answer would do me, thanks.
_________________
"So, JW believe that Jesus is just a human being? Jesus isn't some supernatural entity of any kind? "
[center]I think that you think what I think that you think, don't you think?
Part One[/center]
Is that a question?
I love to answer questions. In fact I just love questions all around.
They are a great way to get answers !!
Tell me if that was a question, and I will give you a very thoughtful reply.
You get the Big Green Blastcat Guarantee© on that one.
Sorry, Blastcat's memory isn't as perfect as he'd like it to be.onewithhim wrote:
When you and I were involved in a discussion a few months ago, I told you in great detail.
Do I disappoint?
Never ending?onewithhim wrote:
Do you now want to engage JehovahsWitness in a never-ending back-and-forth as well?
Seems a bit long, don't you think?
Some of us are going to die.
_________________
FOR THE RECORD:
No.
I don't want to engage in a never-ending back-and-forth as well. A simple answer would do me, thanks.
_________________
I have no reason to doubt that you are telling us what you really think what I already know.
I have still no idea what you mean by that. My question was, if I recall:onewithhim wrote:
Innumerable Scriptures have been quoted showing that Jesus came from heaven, and that the Father sent him.
"So, JW believe that Jesus is just a human being? Jesus isn't some supernatural entity of any kind? "
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Post #32
NO we do not believe that Jesus was JUST a human being.
I didn't realize until now that you have to be spoon-fed every little word. OK there is your answer.
I didn't realize until now that you have to be spoon-fed every little word. OK there is your answer.
Re: Jesus didnot resurrect himself.
Post #33[Replying to post 1 by dio9]
The body named Jesus dissolved into nothing but waveform but he remains alive as God.
The body named Jesus dissolved into nothing but waveform but he remains alive as God.
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Re: Jesus didnot resurrect himself.
Post #34No, Jesus remains alive as the SON OF GOD, and has been at God's right hand for centuries.checkers wrote: [Replying to post 1 by dio9]
The body named Jesus dissolved into nothing but waveform but he remains alive as God.
"He [Jesus] is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior...." (Acts 5:31, NASB)
"Christ Jesus is he who died, yes, rather who was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us." (Romans 8:34, NASB)
How can he be at his own right hand???
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Post #35
Moderator Commentonewithhim wrote: NO we do not believe that Jesus was JUST a human being.
I didn't realize until now that you have to be spoon-fed every little word. OK there is your answer.
Hi onewithhim,
Please don't talk about other debaters. If you're frustrated just let it go.
Please review the Rules.
______________
Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.
Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826
"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image ."
Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826
"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image ."
Post #36
[Replying to post 6 by dio9]
[center]If it rings a bell, it's true.
Part One[/center]
____________
Questions:
[center]If it rings a bell, it's true.
Part One[/center]
dio9 wrote:
Yes Martin Borg I've read his books and what he says is in agreement with what I think. When I read what he wrote I said yes he has put in words what i think. That's how I judge what I believe is true, when it resonates .
____________
Questions:
1. If something resonates differently to other people, are all of these reflections also true?
2. Are you talking about the kind of truth that is purely subjective?
3. If a subjective truth is merely "true for you", why should anyone instantly think that it would also be "true to them"?
4. When something is said to "resonate" , it's like an echo where we say something loudly, and it comes back a little bit garbled... Is that what you mean by "resonates"?
5. How does an echo act as evidence for the truth of a belief?
6. How does the mere fact that something "resonates" with you act as evidence for the truth of the belief?
7.Is what resonates like an echo?
8.If your own thoughts are coming back to you like an echo, your own thoughts are true?
Last edited by Blastcat on Sun Dec 11, 2016 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Jesus didnot resurrect himself.
Post #37[Replying to post 34 by onewithhim]
[center]God can be at his own right hand if He wants ta:
Part One[/center]
1. One man God band.
2. Father, lover, husband, employee, chief bottle washer.
3.The sound of one hand clapping.
4. Three, three, three gods in one.
Scripturally of course, shhhhhhhh. Don't even ask:
"God's Ways are Not Our Ways"
- Isaiah 55:89
"Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct him?"
- Job 40:2
[center]God can be at his own right hand if He wants ta:
Part One[/center]
Metaphorically, that's very easy:
1. One man God band.
2. Father, lover, husband, employee, chief bottle washer.
3.The sound of one hand clapping.
4. Three, three, three gods in one.
Scripturally of course, shhhhhhhh. Don't even ask:
"God's Ways are Not Our Ways"
- Isaiah 55:89
"Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct him?"
- Job 40:2
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Re: Jesus didnot resurrect himself.
Post #38Actually, I'm not speaking metaphorically. Jesus, I think all Christians would agree, went back to heaven and sat or stood at the Father's right hand (the Father being considered as the same Person as God). So literally, a person couldn't stand at his own right hand. God does some awesome things, but I have never gotten the idea that He would do such strange gymnastics as to stand at His own right hand.Blastcat wrote: [Replying to post 34 by onewithhim]
[center]God can be at his own right hand if He wants ta:
Part One[/center]
Metaphorically, that's very easy:
1. One man God band.
2. Father, lover, husband, employee, chief bottle washer.
3.The sound of one hand clapping.
4. Three, three, three gods in one.
Scripturally of course, shhhhhhhh. Don't even ask:
"God's Ways are Not Our Ways"
- Isaiah 55:89
"Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct him?"
- Job 40:2
Re: Jesus didnot resurrect himself.
Post #39[Replying to post 38 by onewithhim]
[center]God can be at his own right hand if He wants ta:
Part Two: God does weird things[/center]
____________
Questions:
[center]God can be at his own right hand if He wants ta:
Part Two: God does weird things[/center]
"God's Ways are Not Our Ways"
- Isaiah 55:89
"Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct him?"
- Job 40:2
The expression "at his right hand" can be a metaphor. It usually refers to the second in command.. as in "right hand man".
Well, maybe this wasn't meant to be taken literally. And MAYBE, the three gods are one.. as some people seem to believe. And also MAYBE, not all Christians agree with you on the nature of Jesus. I think there are lots of Christians who might disagree with you, in fact.onewithhim wrote:
Jesus, I think all Christians would agree, went back to heaven and sat or stood at the Father's right hand (the Father being considered as the same Person as God). So literally, a person couldn't stand at his own right hand.
Right, that does seem weird to me too. But then again.. we are talking about gods here.. who knows, right?onewithhim wrote:
God does some awesome things, but I have never gotten the idea that He would do such strange gymnastics as to stand at His own right hand.
____________
Questions:
1. How did you determine that the expression "At his own right hand" is NOT a metaphorical statement of some kind, to be interpreted by us.. in our own unique ways?
2. Is it possible that you are mistaken about the nature of Jesus?
3. Do all other Christians agree with your beliefs?
4. Do you think that God is capable of doing things that don't make sense to use humans if he wants to?
5.I'd like to know, just to be clear, how many gods you believe in.. is Jesus a god? Because some people say that he is.
6.Is the Holy Spirit a god? Some people seem to think so.
7. What do you tell people who believe in the triune nature of God?
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Re: Jesus didnot resurrect himself.
Post #40OK....Blastcat wrote: [Replying to post 38 by onewithhim]
[center]God can be at his own right hand if He wants ta:
Part Two: God does weird things[/center]
"God's Ways are Not Our Ways"
- Isaiah 55:89
"Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct him?"
- Job 40:2The expression "at his right hand" can be a metaphor. It usually refers to the second in command.. as in "right hand man".
Well, maybe this wasn't meant to be taken literally. And MAYBE, the three gods are one.. as some people seem to believe. And also MAYBE, not all Christians agree with you on the nature of Jesus. I think there are lots of Christians who might disagree with you, in fact.onewithhim wrote:
Jesus, I think all Christians would agree, went back to heaven and sat or stood at the Father's right hand (the Father being considered as the same Person as God). So literally, a person couldn't stand at his own right hand.
Right, that does seem weird to me too. But then again.. we are talking about gods here.. who knows, right?onewithhim wrote:
God does some awesome things, but I have never gotten the idea that He would do such strange gymnastics as to stand at His own right hand.
____________
Questions:
____________
1. How did you determine that the expression "At his own right hand" is NOT a metaphorical statement of some kind, to be interpreted by us.. in our own unique ways?
2. Is it possible that you are mistaken about the nature of Jesus?
3. Do all other Christians agree with your beliefs?
4. Do you think that God is capable of doing things that don't make sense to use humans if he wants to?
5.I'd like to know, just to be clear, how many gods you believe in.. is Jesus a god? Because some people say that he is.
6.Is the Holy Spirit a god? Some people seem to think so.
7. What do you tell people who believe in the triune nature of God?
(1) Answer: "At his right hand" just may be an allegorical statement, meaning, as you suggested, I believe, that Jesus is the second in command. He might be located somewhere near the Most High, Jehovah, the Father, and yet can still be referred to as being at His right hand. Still, a person cannot be beside himself at his own right hand. The two are clearly separate Persons. 1 + 1 does not equal 3, nevermind that Jesus is not equal to the Father.
(2) Answer: I don't believe I am mistaken about the nature of Jesus. I have done intensive, careful study over many years and I believe that I have the right idea....all Scriptures are to be considered, and I have done that. Unlike most who ignore many Scriptures, sad to say.
(3) Answer: No, not all other self-proclaimed Christians agree with what I have decided for myself. I was raised in a trinity-believing, fundamentalist, "Born-Again" family mind-set. We were never taught about Jehovah, except that his name was mentioned occasionally, in association with an old hymn or something, and never taught about Paradise on Earth. I was always particularly curious about God the Father, and always wondered why he was basically ignored. When I ran into JWs, I was awestruck that they used God's name and they didn't believe in a literal hell-fire. But, absolutely, everyone I had always gone to church with disagreed with me on just about everything, and most of Christendom today disagrees as well.
(4) Yes, I think that God can do things for our benefit that don't make sense to us at the time. Like when he told the Israelites to turn back when they got to the Red Sea, and camp out on a flat sandy area hemmed in by mountains. They were sitting ducks for the Egyptians, and the people were terrified. But you know what happened.
(5) I believe in one God Almighty, Most High. He is Jehovah (Psalm 83:18, KJV). Jesus is "a god," similarly to any powerful, influential person, like human judges (John 10:34-36; Psalm 82:6) or rulers.
"God" is defined by JWs as: "The Supreme Being, whose distinctive name is Jehovah. The Hebrew language uses terms for 'God' that convey the idea of strength, also of majesty, dignity, and excellence." In contrast to the true God, there are false gods. Some of these have set themselves up as gods; others have been made objects of worship by those who serve them---ignoring the REAL God, Jehovah. Jesus has been set up as God by those who wish to think of HIM as the true God. He is a "false God" only because people have MADE him God. He is not actually God. He IS a powerful person deserving of respect, though, and because of that he could be considered in the similar category as human rulers who are considered "gods" by men, though Jesus is much more than a mere man. He is much more, but not God the Supreme Being.
(6) The Holy Spirit may be "a god" or "God" to some people, just like Horus was a god to the ancient Egyptians. Horus was not a real god, and neither is the H.S. In fact, the H.S. isn't even a person.
(7) To people who believe in the triune nature of God, I tell them that if they study the Bible they will come to see that God is not a Trinity but one individual---Jehovah, the Most High. If they are further interested, I reason with them, using Scriptures such as:
John 5:19,30
John 6:38
John 8:28,29
John 12:49,50
John 14:24,28
John 17:3
John 20:17
I Corinthians 11:3
I might show them information from secular resources such as The New Encyclopedia Britannica which says: "Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord' (Deut.6:4)....The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies....By the end of the 4th century...the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since." (1976), Micropedia, Vol.X, p.126.
Or the New Catholic Encyclopedia which states: "The formulation 'one God in three Persons' was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective." (1967), Vol.XIV, p.299.