What did philosophy really do to Christianity?

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mickiel
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What did philosophy really do to Christianity?

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"One of the most influential professors in the shaping of contemporary theology was Peter Abelard, (1079-1142). He is partly responsible for giving us modern theology. His teachings set the table and prepared the menu for scholastic philosophers like Thomas Aquinas, ( 1225-1274). Even before this Christianity became steeped in the thoughts of Plato and Aristotle.

The shocking historical fact is that many of the Christian church fathers were pagan philosophers and orators prior to their conversions, and the Christian faith soon began to take on a philosophical bent." ( Frank Viola pg.202).

( Much of this thread will draw from Frank Violas " Pagan Christianity", Eusebius" The history of the church", Boggs " The Christian Saga" and Rowdon " Theological education in historical perspective.") And from my own views of course. And I will draw on a few websites and articles, which I will always list the references.

Viola states, on Pg.203, " Within a century and a half after Christianity and Philosophy first came into contact, the ideas and methods of Philosophy had flowed in such mass into Christianity, and filled so large a place in it, as to have made it no less a Philosophy than a religion." Which when I read, was absolutely stunning!

When Philosophy got into the Christian bloodstream, especially Pagan philosophy, the Christian Theological Education system has never recovered from it. The fusion of Pagan and Christian elements, became a " Theology unto itself"; ( The term " Theology" used to describe Pagan beliefs).

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Post #91

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"Viola states, on Pg.203, " Within a century and a half after Christianity and Philosophy first came into contact, the ideas and methods of Philosophy had flowed in such mass into Christianity, and filled so large a place in it, as to have made it no less a Philosophy than a religion." Which when I read, was absolutely stunning! "

I do not see that in my religion and I think this explains it why:

When discussing the "Lord's Supper," for example, the authors seem oblivious of the connection with the Passover Seder of Jesus and His disciples. Constant references to the "first century church" or the "early church" reveals a profound lack of understanding of the inherent Jewishness of the gospel of Jesus -- the "King of the Jews."

'..lack of understanding of the inheret Jewishness in the Gospel of Jesus.'
'Christianity should be more Judaised.'
NT is breakaway from the religion of Jews and mostly because they had perverted it as Jesus pointed out. From repentance to sermon on the mount, to repentance, love thy neighbor; the old ways did not work.

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Post #92

Post by Blastcat »

[Replying to post 91 by Monta]
Monta wrote:
NT is breakaway from the religion of Jews and mostly because they had perverted it as Jesus pointed out. From repentance to sermon on the mount, to repentance, love thy neighbor; the old ways did not work.
Of course Christianity is a "breakaway" from Judaism.. It could be described as a form of Judaism, as there are many. As there are many breakaways forms of Christian cults, so many of them ( including yours, I take it ) who claim to be the only TRUE breakaway ...

Tribalism in the modern age at it's best.

One cult is a "perversion" of the cult that came before it.

:)

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Post #93

Post by Monta »

Blastcat wrote: [Replying to post 91 by Monta]
Monta wrote:
NT is breakaway from the religion of Jews and mostly because they had perverted it as Jesus pointed out. From repentance to sermon on the mount, to repentance, love thy neighbor; the old ways did not work.
Of course Christianity is a "breakaway" from Judaism.. It could be described as a form of Judaism, as there are many. As there are many breakaways forms of Christian cults, so many of them ( including yours, I take it ) who claim to be the only TRUE breakaway ...

Tribalism in the modern age at it's best.

One cult is a "perversion" of the cult that came before it.

:)
We know from history that often something new is much better than old -i.e. horse and cart. Don't think you'd be popular saying Christianity is form of Judaism.
I don't want to quote Talmud here but the utter hatred towards Jesus is beyond doubt
and without Jesus there's no Christinity.

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Post #94

Post by Blastcat »

[Replying to post 93 by Monta]

Monta wrote:
We know from history that often something new is much better than old -i.e. horse and cart. Don't think you'd be popular saying Christianity is form of Judaism.
I don't want to quote Talmud here but the utter hatred towards Jesus is beyond doubt
and without Jesus there's no Christinity.
Well sorry.. you might have to quote whatever it is you are using as evidence. Right now.. I have NO idea what that might be.

One thing is sure.. Christians sure had it in for Jews for a long while, didn't they? ( I think that some still do )

And oh.. by the way.. Just because something is new.. does it mean it's any good?

And oh, by the way.. being popular has nothing to do with being correct. Look at Trump.

I'd much rather being correct than popular, but that's me.
Without Judaism, there would BE no Christ.
Christianity is derivative of Judaism.. OT and NT.. right?
Kinda linked?

:)

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Post #95

Post by Monta »

[Replying to Blastcat]

"Without Judaism, there would BE no Christ.
Christianity is derivative of Judaism.. OT and NT.. right?
Kinda linked? "

Without Judaism some other tribe or another man somewhere would have had enlightenment and perceive that there is One God; they also would have perverted the given revelation/Scripture (all Sacred Scripture is perverted by slime from hell - quoting my favorite NewAger).
Redemption had been promised from the creation of the world, and a Savior would have come.

Re Talmud quote, sorry it is too revolting for me to repeat it.
I am sure you'll find it on Google.

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Post #96

Post by rbarton »

[Replying to post 95 by Monta]

These arguments are nonsensical and small.

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Post #97

Post by mickiel »

[Replying to rbarton]



Well the argument began asking what philosophy did to Christianity. The long term effect it historically imputed. It basically imputed the opinions of religious people into biblical interpretation. The word of God , as taught to the church and the world , was infected with the view of philosophers ,many of who had been influenced by paganism themselves.

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Post #98

Post by Blastcat »

[Replying to post 95 by Monta]

!

[center]What WOULDA happened? [/center]


"Without Judaism, there would BE no Christ.
Christianity is derivative of Judaism.. OT and NT.. right?
Kinda linked? "
Monta wrote:
Without Judaism some other tribe or another man somewhere would have had enlightenment and perceive that there is One God;
When people talk in hypotheticals like that.. I have to wonder how they can prove them. How do you know that without Judaism some other tribe or another WOULD HAVE ... perceive this or that?

What evidence do you have for your remarkable certainty?

Monta wrote:
" they also would have ... "
Is what follows a fact or an opinion?

:)

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Post #99

Post by rbarton »

[Replying to post 97 by mickiel]

Philosophy seems to be a necessary, and natural mode of communication and enlightenment when humans are contemplating the reality and the ways of God. Wouldn't it be true that His thoughts are above our thoughts, His ways above ours? How could one simply deduct God with a human brain? Think of two ants attempting to 'deduct' the reality of fish? It's the rare eye witness survivor that came close to drowning in that lake.

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Post #100

Post by mickiel »

rbarton wrote: [Replying to post 97 by mickiel]

Philosophy seems to be a necessary, and natural mode of communication and enlightenment when humans are contemplating the reality and the ways of God. Wouldn't it be true that His thoughts are above our thoughts, His ways above ours? How could one simply deduct God with a human brain? Think of two ants attempting to 'deduct' the reality of fish? It's the rare eye witness survivor that came close to drowning in that lake.

Well I agree , philosophy is enlightenment , but the confusing thing is , when does it actually lead to the biblical truth , or coincide with it? That is where the deception creeps in. As you stated , we cannot deduct God with the human brain. This is the meaning of Jeremiah 10:23 , it states the way of man is not in himself , ( its not in philosophy either; to understand the way of God), that we cannot direct our own paths.

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