Comfort

[onewithhim]

Life in this world can be distressing. Is there anywhere we can turn for reliable help and comfort? JWs are asking this question world-wide for this month. The focus is on Jehovah, our God "of tender mercies."

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of tender mercies and the God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort those in any sort of tribulation through the comfort with which we ourselves are being comforted by God." (2 Corinthians 1:3,4)

Any thoughts so far?

[Talishi]

Now I BELIEVE with all of my heart that chocolate ice cream is better than vanilla, but some ice cream eaters still insist on vanilla.

Chocolate is a female sacrament, like beer is for men.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 39 by onewithhim]

!

[center]"We teach the truth"[/center]

Might I throw in my $.02?

Please, do.

JWs believe that we who have the earthly hope will be living on the earth forever, providing we remain loyal to the end of the system of things, or, the end of our life in this system. All we have to do is be determined to remain of good conscience and endure all of Satan's machinations, with help from Jehovah and his Son.

Some people will live forever on earth.. some not.
Ok, JWs believe this... in what way can we verify that the belief is true?

We don't tell our kids about the "hell" that Christendom teaches....a never-ending bar-b-que pit where people are roasted for all time. That is a ficticious place, straight out of Dante's Inferno, which comes from Dante's imagination.

"Christendom teaches."
Are there no Bible references about Hell being... a bad place?

We teach the kids that all the animals await them, even snakes and sharks and tigers who will not hurt them in the Paradise Earth, and the kids love it. (Isaiah 11:6-9)

Yeah, kids usually love nice stories.
I used to make them up all the time for them... yep.
They loved them.

( never religious stories, though, I was an atheist by then )

So, there are no bad stories in JW?
But how can we verify that the good JW stories are true?

If some people are mean and bad, they will just go to sleep forever, so they won't bother people who want to be good.

Ok, that doesn't sound like a bad thing.
Sleep is fine.

If we can say that we somehow "existed" before we were born... sleep was fine then, too. It made me cry when I had to "wake up".

That doesn't terrorize the children, like the teachings of Christendom (false Christianity). We teach the truth, and it honors a loving God.

You teach the truth to the kids ...

That's an interesting idea.
How can we verify that your beliefs about heaven and hell are true?

How do you divide up the posts so you can answer each question right under the question? Marco tried to tell me but I didn't get it.

I'll go from the top: "How can we verify that some people will live on Earth forever and some not?" Gee, it seems like I just answered this somewhere on these threads. Well, anyway, I guess it can bear repeating. The following Scriptures show three destinations for people.

(1) Heaven:
"There are heavenly bodies [celestial], and earthly bodies [terrestrial]; the glory of the heavenly bodies is one sort, and that of the earthly bodies is a different sort....There is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one....Just as we have borne the image of the one made of dust, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly one." (I Corinthians 15:40,44,49)

"If we go on enduring, we shall also rule together as kings." (2 Timothy 2:12)

"They came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years....They will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years." (Revelation 20:4,6)

(2) Paradise Earth:
"Evildoers will be cut off, but those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth....The meek ones will possess the earth, and they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace....The righteous will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it." (Psalm 37:9,11,29)

"The wolf will actually reside with the lamb, and with the kid the leopard will lie down, and the calf and the lion and the well-fed animal all together; and a little boy will lead them. The cow and the bear will feed; together their young ones will lie down....A child will play upon the hole of the cobra....They will not do any harm or cause any ruin in all my holy mountain; because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah as the waters are covering the sea." (Isaiah 11:6-9)

"The wilderness and the waterless region will exult, and the desert plain will be joyful and blossom as the saffron....At that time the eyes of the blind ones will be opened, and the very ears of the deaf ones will be unstopped. At that time the lame one will climb up just as a stag does, and the tongue of the speechless one will cry out in gladness. For in the wilderness waters will have burst out, and torrents in the desert plain." (Isaiah 35:1,5,6)

"They will build houses and inhabit them; They will also plant vineyards and eat their fruit....For as the lifetime of a tree, so will be the days of my people....They will not labor in vain, or bear children for calamity; for they are the offspring of those blessed by the LORD [YHWH], and their descendants with them." (Isaiah 65:21-23)

"Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth." (Matthew 5:5)


(3) Gehenna:
"Be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna." (Matt.10:28)
What does it mean? There is no mention of "torment" in Gehenna; rather, he says to "fear him that can destroy in Gehenna." By referring to the "soul" separately, Jesus emphasizes that God can destroy all of a person's life prospects; thus there is no hope of resurrection for him. The references to the "fiery Gehenna" have the same meaning as "the lake of fire" of Revelation 21:8, namely, destruction, the "second death."

"These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength." (2 Thessalonians 1:9)

Revelation 14:9-11 could not refer to conscious torture after death, because "The dead know not anything." (Ecclesiastes 9:5, KJV)

[JehovahsWitness]

How do you divide up the posts so you can answer each question right under the question? Marco tried to tell me but I didn't get it.

Hit "quote" the way you did but instead of just starting to post at the bottom, block and delete everything except the very first line that looks like this ==>[quote =name of person...url]xxxx bit you want to keep xxxxx [ / quote] < _==== and only keep the very last quote box that looks like

then start typing your response.

JW

[onewithhim]

Any other comments on post #52, Blastcat?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 54 by onewithhim]

Any other comments on post #52, Blastcat?

Only to say that you seem to believe what some passages of the Bible has to say.
I can't dispute or debate your beliefs.


People with all kinds of different backgrounds interpret the Bible in different ways to mean all kinds of different things, and then believe that their interpretations are TRUE in an objective sense.

I say that these personal interpretations can only be true in the SUBJECTIVE sense.

It's my opinion that the best we could do is to check for the internal logic and consistency of an interpretation, as we can do with ANY literary interpretation.

What does a poem mean?

There isn't an OBJECTIVE meaning to a poem, you see... only subjective ones.
A poem can be "TRUE" , but only true to a PERSON... not like when we say true of nature. That's why, in my opinion, Christians and other theists have to DEBATE over the "meaning" of Bible passages. Some agree, some don't.

Interpreting the Bible is more like an art than a science in that way.
Subjective, not objective.

So, I would take heaven and hell and god and Bible concepts the way I take poetry.. in the Bible's case.. very good powerful poetry, indeed.

I love the Bible for it's POETIC truth, but not at all for it's LITERAL truth.

If you have questions about my position, don't hesitate to ask.

[OnceConvinced]

I found writing brought me a lot of comfort during tough times. Just escaping away to my own world where I was god and I got to control the destinies of the people in it.

It's interesting when I look back at my writings. I have kept a list of when I started and when I finished each story. I can scan my way down the list and it's interesting to see that the times I was most miserable in my life was where I did the most writing. When I was happy, I had done very little writing. This was the case even during the time I believed I was closest to God.

[JehovahsWitness]

(1) Heaven:
"If we go on enduring, we shall also rule together as kings." (2 Timothy 2:12)

"They came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years....They will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years." (Revelation 20:4,6)

(2) Paradise Earth:
"Evildoers will be cut off, but those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth....The meek ones will possess the earth, and they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace....The righteous will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it." (Psalm 37:9,11,29)

Some excellent scriptures from onewithim!

"The wolf will actually reside with the lamb, and with the kid the leopard will lie down, and the calf and the lion and the well-fed animal all together; and a little boy will lead them. The cow and the bear will feed; together their young ones will lie down....A child will play upon the hole of the cobra....They will not do any harm or cause any ruin in all my holy mountain; because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah as the waters are covering the sea." (Isaiah 11:6-9)

"The wilderness and the waterless region will exult, and the desert plain will be joyful and blossom as the saffron....At that time the eyes of the blind ones will be opened, and the very ears of the deaf ones will be unstopped. At that time the lame one will climb up just as a stag does, and the tongue of the speechless one will cry out in gladness. For in the wilderness waters will have burst out, and torrents in the desert plain." (Isaiah 35:1,5,6)

"They will build houses and inhabit them; They will also plant vineyards and eat their fruit....For as the lifetime of a tree, so will be the days of my people....They will not labor in vain, or bear children for calamity; for they are the offspring of those blessed by the LORD [YHWH], and their descendants with them." (Isaiah 65:21-23)

"Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth." (Matthew 5:5)

That message of a real government dealing with the problems on the earth and ensuring at long LONG last, people can live in good conditions is for many of us a solid hope and a comfort in these difficult times.

JW

[dio9]

[Replying to post 50 by JehovahsWitness]

I was raised Catholic so it is a part of me. I do not reject it but go beyond . I have total confidence in the experience Catholicism has instilled in me about God and Jesus and the holy spirit. However it's not enough. My soul is nurtured by more. Be it Buddhist and Hindu. I specially like the idea here that God is to be found within. And each of us . So God is within every human being, somewhere under all the stuff that has been piled upon our soul. Like greed anger and foolishness for starters. So our soul needs to be freed from it. That's all.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 58 by dio9]

!

[center]" I specially like the idea here that God is to be found within. And each of us . So God is within every human being"[/center]

I was raised Catholic so it is a part of me. I do not reject it but go beyond . I have total confidence in the experience Catholicism has instilled in me about God and Jesus and the holy spirit. However it's not enough. My soul is nurtured by more. Be it Buddhist and Hindu. I specially like the idea here that God is to be found within. And each of us . So God is within every human being, somewhere under all the stuff that has been piled upon our soul. Like greed anger and foolishness for starters. So our soul needs to be freed from it. That's all.

"I specially like the idea"

Is "liking an idea" guarantee that the idea is true?

Where does the truth enter into your beliefs, be they Catholic, Hindu, or Buddhist?

You seem to use language that indicates that you make a LEAP from what you like to believe to what is true.

Allow me to quote you again to explain:

" I specially like the idea here that God is to be found within. And each of us . So God is within every human being"

The bold is my own, but those are your words.

Do you see how to an outside observer, your words could be interpreted to meant that "I especially LIKE idea X, THEREFORE X is true."

Another way of putting it would be:

"I especially like the idea that "God is to be found within", SO, "God is to be found within" is a true fact of REALITY."

Do you see what I'm getting at?
There seems to be a leap between your liking an idea and what appears to be a belief.

I don't see the causal link other than you would possibly believe what you like, and vice versa.

Would you say that your statement that "God is to be found within" a true statement about reality or a true statement about your opinion of reality?

Opinions aren't facts, so I want to know what it is you are talking about, exactly, a fact or reality or an opinion about reality?

[JehovahsWitness]

I specially like the idea here that God is to be found within. And each of us .

Well if you mean our humanity reflects to a degree God's personality, I would agree. If you mean we live with the reality of God's existence by accepting this in our minds and hearts, I would agree. Even if you are saying that the spirit of God, the "breath of life" (his power the animates us and keeps us alive) is in us, I would agree.

If you mean that God, the individual person, that created the universe, literally lives simultaneously in the location of the bodies of multiple people, I would disagree. The bible states that God resides (lives) in a particular location in heaven.


JW