Christian 'Drop-outs'

[OpenYourEyes]

For Discussion or Debate:
How to prevent Christians from dropping out of the faith?

How to respond to Christians who have already dropped out of the faith?
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Just to elaborate on some terms and why I started this thread...
A Christian drop-out stems from the same idea of high school drop-out, in that both groups left something prematurely. The Christian drop-out leaves Christianity usually due to some problem or conflict that they encounter with their belief system and then they give up prematurely. I think most people are accustomed to hearing about and assuming that many atheists leave the faith based on rational reasons but then when I press them I find that many of the key factors that should be considered in the decision are missing. There tends to be a lack of proper understanding of God and the Bible, a lack of familiarity with Christian apologetics, and even on conducting research into their objections. As such, I tend to not spend much time answering their every objection and instead I help lay a foundation for them (in their thinking) where they can find the answers themselves because all the main problem boils down to is a problem dealing with doubt.

One recent example is of a former Christian who drew a negative conclusion about some aspect of Christianity based on an inadequate answer that their professor told them. Apparently, this person considered asking a teacher as being sufficient to deal with their doubt since their response came after my questioning of whatever research they've done on the matter. Ironically, this person dropped out of their class on religion. Notice here no real effort was put in to look for answers either because the person didn't know how and where to look or this person just gave up. This is very common sign/pattern of someone who doesn't know how to deal with doubt.

[rikuoamero]

[Replying to post 73 by JLB32168]

For Discussion or Debate:
How to prevent Christians from dropping out of the faith?

How to respond to Christians who have already dropped out of the faith?

Christ and Paul spoke at length about how a great apostasy would occur in the end times so I'm not so sure that Christians can be bothered. If you want to leave Christianity then you're free to do so. If someone asks me what I think I'll tell them but I won't knock myself out to keep them from leaving.

We're freewill creatures.

It's odd that Christians still try to proselytize even though they don't care, it doesn't matter and so on. I wonder why that evangelizing is still going on?

Do Christians imagine that people haven't HEARD about Christianity?

It must be why JLB can't be bothered to give actual reasons for why he believes, beyond a weeping statue, a village that wasn't flooded by a tsunami, some prayed for fish being delivered and 'it might be true'.
I think JLB mentioned before that he's a teacher. Why that job? Why is he teaching if, according to his religious beliefs, "a great apostasy would occur in the end times so I'm not so sure that Christians can be bothered."
How exactly is his chosen denomination meant to survive if there's no point in trying to win converts, 'teaching the truth' as it were?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 81 by rikuoamero]

It must be why JLB can't be bothered to give actual reasons for why he believes, beyond a weeping statue, a village that wasn't flooded by a tsunami, some prayed for fish being delivered and 'it might be true'.
I think JLB mentioned before that he's a teacher. Why that job? Why is he teaching if, according to his religious beliefs, "a great apostasy would occur in the end times so I'm not so sure that Christians can be bothered."
How exactly is his chosen denomination meant to survive if there's no point in trying to win converts, 'teaching the truth' as it were?

It is amazing to me that people will come into this kind of forum and tell us straight up that they arent HERE TO DEBATE. So.. then I wonder if they aren't just here to preach, instead, even when they tell us they aren't even interested in THAT... weird, weird, and wonderfully weird!

Unfortunately for those people... preaching ( or whatever it is that they are doing other than debating ) is not debating.

( and opinions aren't facts )

And I'm not really a cat

and this isn't big

[OnceConvinced]

How to respond to Christians who have already dropped out of the faith?

Empathise with them? Acknowledge that everyone has their own reason to drop out of their faith and is their own journey? Understand that they are the same person as they were before?

This is a key thing for people who want to lure ex-Christians back in. Empathy. Trying to put yourself in the shoes of that person. However it seems that empathy is something that many Christians lack... which is probably why they feel they need a god to dictate their morals and how to treat others.

Most of the time they take what the bible says as truth and to hell with what the Ex-Christian says (eg They just want to sin, they are rebellious, they are against god... nonsense like that). I have come across this way too many times with Christians, even those I saw as friends.

I have given multi page accounts to Christians of my Christian walk and how I came to be an ex-Christian, but many of them just flag it away as it it were nothing and meaningless and then continue with their same ill-informed presumptions about me.

Most Christians don't seem to want to make any effort to try to understand the real reasons why people drop from the faith. They have no interest in that. They just want to stand in judgement.

Someone who at least attempts to try to understand is more likely to be respected by we ex-Christians and listened too rather than judgemental asses who have preconceived ideas about us.

Or you know, you can make them feel bad about themselves, convince them that they have a problem dealing with doubt, a problem that lay with them and not with Christianity. Tell them their decision to leave is premature and any problems they had can be resolved with "proper" understanding of God, the Bible and Christian apologetics. Don't both with answering every individual objections but dismiss their doubt as the result of a lack of research.

And this is the judgemental attitude I am thinking of when I mention it. It is way too prevalent amongst Christians and it pushes ex-Christians further away from Christ. It just convinces us even more that we are right to no longer take the bible seriously - that Christianity is just another out of touch with reality, judgemental religion.

[Peds nurse]

How to prevent Christians from dropping out of the faith?

I don't think it is our place to prevent Christians from dropping out. This is because our relationship with God is personal. We can love, encourage, strengthen, and teach people about what God says, but whether or not they choose to stay or even believe, is totally up to the individual.

How to respond to Christians who have already dropped out of the faith?

We respond like we do to everyone else, with love, respect, and compassion.

Hope those are not too simple of answers!

[Zzyzx]

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judgemental asses

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[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 83 by Peds nurse]

How to prevent Christians from dropping out of the faith?

I don't think it is our place to prevent Christians from dropping out. This is because our relationship with God is personal. We can love, encourage, strengthen, and teach people about what God says, but whether or not they choose to stay or even believe, is totally up to the individual.

How to respond to Christians who have already dropped out of the faith?

We respond like we do to everyone else, with love, respect, and compassion.

Hope those are not too simple of answers!

Peds,

We can do with more of THIS kind of simplicity.

There are good parts of Christianity, and, when well applied or well expressed, are beautiful. If Christians only ever expressed and acted the way you just said, nobody could have a problem with that. We don't live in a perfect world, though, but there is nothing wrong with that Christian ideal.

And as an atheist, I have to say that I completely endorse it. I often say that we don't have to BE a Christian to have good moral values. But at times, you can be a Christian and have them, too.

[Danmark]

I have given multi page accounts to Christians of my Christian walk and how I came to be an ex-Christian, but many of them just flag it away as it it were nothing and meaningless and then continue with their same ill-informed presumptions about me.

Most Christians don't seem to want to make any effort to try to understand the real reasons why people drop from the faith. They have no interest in that. They just want to stand in judgement.

Someone who at least attempts to try to understand is more likely to be respected by we ex-Christians and listened too rather than judgemental asses who have preconceived ideas about us.
And this is the judgemental attitude I am thinking of when I mention it. It is way too prevalent amongst Christians and it pushes ex-Christians further away from Christ. It just convinces us even more that we are right to no longer take the bible seriously - that Christianity is just another out of touch with reality, judgemental religion.

I agree and find this attitude annoying, wrong headed, and anti Christian. Paul said 'Preach the truth in love.' But I have to remind myself that almost the only place I encounter this is on this forum and other internet sites where anonymity protects and allows their true thoughts to be expressed. In person to person interactions I do not get the kind of response you and others refer to. I get incredulity if they know how active I was in the church, or I get surprise and an effort to 'splain it to me if they don't know my background. But I almost never am confronted with rudeness and presumption 'you never really WERE a Christian,' or 'you did not study hard enough' that is so prevalent here. I don't know if this is just indicative of the debate forum mentality or a lack of candor from those I meet in person. At any rate, in person they are usually polite and respectful. I try to do the same. I want Christians to see that a person without religious faith and be happy, content, and decent to others while having no belief in the supernatural. In fact I have no trouble telling them that I still love Jesus and much of what I think of as true Christian ethics. I just reject the supernatural part and the pharisaical judging. Tho' that judgmental part remains with me. I don't blame Christianity for that. It's my own [expletive deleted] problem.

[OpenYourEyes]

I have given multi page accounts to Christians of my Christian walk and how I came to be an ex-Christian, but many of them just flag it away as it it were nothing and meaningless and then continue with their same ill-informed presumptions about me.

Most Christians don't seem to want to make any effort to try to understand the real reasons why people drop from the faith. They have no interest in that. They just want to stand in judgement.

Someone who at least attempts to try to understand is more likely to be respected by we ex-Christians and listened too rather than judgemental asses who have preconceived ideas about us.

There were two ways that I could've approached the Christian drop-outs matter but both would've had the same end-result from my experience. I could've done similar to a single-blind study (keeping my conclusion hidden from all former Christians turned atheists) by asking a series of questions to former Christians and let their responses confirm my point about their lack of research and subsequent dropping out of the faith. OR I could've let them know my conclusion and work backwards to show how or why 'some' atheists drop-out.

I chose to take the latter approach, and just as I expected, NOT ONE former Christian turned atheist so far on this thread has been willing to admit that they left Christianity due to a lack of research, assuming that they researched at all. Of course, if they want to give off an image of being 'rational' in dropping the faith, how could they admit to such a thing?! If I took the other approach, then I would've netted in more atheists on this forum, who likely did precisely what I've brought up in my OP and that's because I've caught others on other forums, in college, etc and even in other threads here, based on their misrepresentations of Christianity.


Just an example:
One atheist member who participated on this thread drew a conclusion that Christianity was sexist. After tracking down that thread (thanks to Benchwarmer linking to it), I also saw that he's another one that drew a conclusion about Christianity based off of INADEQUATE research because he only consulted ONE source, and perhaps even the wrong source. Now AFTER the fact, he or she is telling me in this thread that they did more research AFTER I told them what the problem with their conclusion was. ANd of course, if you believe that Christianity is sexist , then that's going to start leaving a bad taste in your mouth towards Christianity, and how much more is left before you drop it completely?! Some would drop the faith based on that one conclusion alone (although the real problem was this person's lack of research).

[JLB32168]

It's odd that Christians still try to proselytize even though they don't care, it doesn't matter and so on.

Proselytization involves bringing the Gospel to people who have never heard it. If one has heard it and rejected it then that’s where my part ends. Even Christ said as much.

[Zzyzx]

.

Proselytization involves bringing the Gospel to people who have never heard it.

Proselytize is defined as (Merriam Webster Dictionary) as: to try to persuade people to join a religion, cause, or group.

That does not imply “to people who have never heard it�. Shall we change the definition to suit an argument?

If one has heard it and rejected it then that’s where my part ends. Even Christ said as much.

If you actually were to confine your efforts, as you claim, to people who have not heard the gospel WHO would you talk to? Who, in modern society, has not heard the gospel before you came along?

Are you just saying things that sound good?