What is the Logos?

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Checkpoint
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What is the Logos?

Post #1

Post by Checkpoint »

I am referring to John's first chapter, where he introduces a Greek philosophical concept called "the Logos" which is usually translated as "the Word".

Who really understands, who can explain, what John wrote in these verses?


1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing that exists came into being.


God is with God? What??

Just philosophical ideas? And if so, to convey what to his readers?

Two Gods?

Pierac
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Re: What is the Logos?

Post #21

Post by Pierac »

pshun2404 wrote:
[Replying to post 18 by JehovahsWitness]

Isaiah 43:10

Many that are called "gods" but only ONE YHVH....who is the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit. The one and only YHVH revealed Himself in three persona. Not one God, a god, and their impersonal force.



Please show me where, and when... YHVH revealed Himself in three persona? :-k

I can show you several where HE does not!!


Isaiah 44:6 - "Thus says the LORD... there is no God but me."

Isaiah 45:5 - "I am the LORD and there is no other, there is no God besides me."

Isaiah 45:6 - "Men may know that there is none besides me. I am the LORD, there is no other."

Yet Jesus teaches of his GOD... :-k

John 20:17 - "I am going to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God."

Matthew 27:46 - "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"

Revelation 3:12 - "Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God."

Revelation 3:2 - "for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God."

Paul knows Jesus has a GOD! (The other Paul)

Ephesians 1:3 - "Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Ephesians 1:17 - "I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father..."

2 Corinthians 1:3 - "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Peter knows Jesus has a GOD!

1 Peter 1:3 - "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."

So please... show me... How your one and only YHVH revealed Himself in three persona


Paul :study:

Checkpoint
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Re: What is the Logos?

Post #22

Post by Checkpoint »

pshun2404 wrote: [Replying to post 18 by JehovahsWitness]

Isaiah 43:10

Many that are called "gods" but only ONE YHVH....who is the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit. The one and only YHVH revealed Himself in three persona. Not one God, a god, and their impersonal force.


What you say, " but only ONE YHVH....who is the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit" is clearly taken from 1 John 5:7, which reads:

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

Most of this verse is an interpolation.

The Pulpit Commentary explains its origin and lack of genuineness:

"Verse 7. - 'For those who bear witness are three', and thus constitute full legal testimony (Deuteronomy 17:6; Deuteronomy 19:15; Matthew 18:16; 2 Corinthians 13:1).

It will be assumed here, without discussion, that the remainder of this verse and the first clause of verse 8 are spurious.

Words which are not contained in a single Greek uncial manuscript, nor in a single Greek cursive earlier than the fourteenth century (the two which contain the passage being evidently translated from the Vulgate), nor are quoted by a single Greek Father during the whole of the Trinitarian controversy, nor are found in any authority until late in the fifth century, cannot be genuine".

Yahu
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Re: What is the Logos?

Post #23

Post by Yahu »

Pierac wrote:
I'm cool with that...
BTY, you want me to correct another verse you missed used like you did with Colossians 1 ?
Paul[/color]
My primary spiritual gift is 'discernment of spirits'. So don't bother. I couldn't even finish reading your posts without my guts knotting up.

It reminded me of the letter to Sardis:
1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

I assume you have had cemetery (my term for seminary) training.

Pierac
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Re: What is the Logos?

Post #24

Post by Pierac »

Yahu wrote:
Pierac wrote:
I'm cool with that...
BTY, you want me to correct another verse you missed used like you did with Colossians 1 ?
Paul[/color]
My primary spiritual gift is 'discernment of spirits'. So don't bother. I couldn't even finish reading your posts without my guts knotting up.

It reminded me of the letter to Sardis:
1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

I assume you have had cemetery (my term for seminary) training.
I understand... reading scripture that contradicts your beliefs has this effect... on many... It's the difference of seeking the truth vs trying to find support for your truth (beliefs). and... No I have no seminary training... I just seek the truth!

You need to seek the truth... not what you think the truth should be...

Peace brother,
Paul

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Post #25

Post by dio9 »

The purpose of all this is that we understand God not make others understand God.

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Re: What is the Logos?

Post #26

Post by JehovahsWitness »

pshun2404 wrote: [Replying to post 18 by JehovahsWitness]

Isaiah 43:10

Many that are called "gods" but only ONE YHVH....who is the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit. The one and only YHVH revealed Himself in three persona. Not one God, a god, and their impersonal force.
I couldn't agree more. Yes, there is only one Almighty God, Creator of all YHWH (Jehovah) the supreme ruler of the universe. Nothing and no one is His equal.

pshun2404 wrote: [Replying to post 18 by JehovahsWitness]The one and only YHVH revealed Himself in three persona.
That is not in scripture, so I don't believe that to be true.


JEHOVAHS WITNESS
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

JLB32168

Post #27

Post by JLB32168 »

Justin Martyr spoke Greek - the same Greek of Scripture. He identifies "the Word" as Christ. It seems to me that he knew his language better than modern scholars and if he says that the logos is Christ and God then we should defer to him. He's not the only one.

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Post #28

Post by dio9 »

JLB32168 wrote: Justin Martyr spoke Greek - the same Greek of Scripture. He identifies "the Word" as Christ. It seems to me that he knew his language better than modern scholars and if he says that the logos is Christ and God then we should defer to him. He's not the only one.
I don't think word means savior. But rather the word is closer to the divine principle that runs through life and things.

dio9
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Post #29

Post by dio9 »

I put this down on another thread but thinkit is more appropriate here.:

The Greeks used logos to mean; "a ground", "a plea", "an opinion", "an expectation", "word", "speech", "account", "to reason". (from Wikipedia )

I personally like Heraclitus's use of the word as " a principle of order and knowledge". (from Wikipedia)

This use seems to fit a creators need more exactly than the vague usage word .

Anyways whatever the meaning of Logos is, John identifies logos to be pre existent Jesus.

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Post #30

Post by bluethread »

dio9 wrote:
JLB32168 wrote: Justin Martyr spoke Greek - the same Greek of Scripture. He identifies "the Word" as Christ. It seems to me that he knew his language better than modern scholars and if he says that the logos is Christ and God then we should defer to him. He's not the only one.
I don't think word means savior. But rather the word is closer to the divine principle that runs through life and things.
I agree, that is the nature of the Greek Logos. So, it appears to me that Yochannan is juxtaposing Yeshua with what in modern circles would be called the universal principle. So, Yeshua, the personal embodiment of HaTorah(The Word), performs the same purpose of the impersonal unifying principle(Logos, Word) of the nations.

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