The Trinity is illogical and irrational.

[Celsus]

The Trinity is illogical and irrational.

If The Son = God and The Father = God and the Spirit = God then The Son = The Father = The Spirit.

Which obviously is not the case since all three interact with each other as separate entities and did different things in the biblical stories.

The Son, The Father and The Spirit can form God together but not each be totally God.

1+1+1 = 3 and not 1.

1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 equals to 1 of course. But that's not what the Christian dogma says.

So is there anyone in here claiming that the Trinity can be explained logically and rationally?

[usassociatesllc@hotmail.c]

The biggest question the Trinity cannot explain is, why three?
Why not four? Five? Six? Seven? etc. Why not a Million?
The answer is because the Trinity is not true.

This discussion is only hypothetical if you are looking for information outside of the Bible.
With the Bible as evidence, the Trinity is False.
The Trinity is not only complex, it is also illogical.

The real question you need to determine is 'do you believe the Bible is from God'?

If the answer is no.

Then you are right this is a hypothetical conversation.

If the answer is yes.

Then you have verifiable assurance that God is not a Trinity.

[PghPanther]

[Replying to post 1 by Celsus]

What is far more important than trying to explain a triune God is why there is even debate among those who call themselves Christian whether God is triune or not.

If claims of the Holy Spirit as outlined in the Bible are true then a revelation of this doctrine would have been revealed to all believers and they would not have any disagreement on whether God is triune or not.

The fact that as a body of believers that Christians cannot come to a concurrence on this doctrine is proof there is no ubiquitous revelation.................which makes sense if there is no supernatural being........

End of story.........

Unless......of course the Holy Spirit likes to change its mind and fool with believers which I highly doubt that would be considered as an explanation among Christian apologists.

Face it..........Christianity in the age of reason and critical analysis where the public square is willing to allow those critical to this world view to have it debated is the beginning of the end for them.

This same process that is going on today allowing atheists and scientists to critically stand up and defend the reason based construction of reality verses the ever fading authority of church doctrine is no different that when we started debating women's rights, slavery and child labor abuses in the public square without ridicule.

In each case when the debating started it was the beginning of the end of the powers to be in an attempt to keep the status quo and society marched on beyond such antiquated world views..............the same thing is happening to Christianity today.......this debating forum online is a perfect example.

That's why there are professional apologists for Christian theology today as they are circling the wagons of their ever shrinking territory of authority in society....................could you image being an apologist for a provisional truth claim from science like the laws of gravity?

Who in the world needs a defense on the validity of gravity?

Why do we need it then for the absolute truth claims of Christianity?

Arguing for a triune God is like debating which kryptonite is more effective against superman..........red, green or yellow.........

In the end you might know your comic book stories well enough to come to a conclusion but you are still defending a fantasy story and not reality......

[JLB32168]

The Trinity is illogical and irrational.

The idea of an uncaused cause is illogical and irrational, and that means that the existence of the universe is illogical and irrational.

The idea of a triangle being a circle is illogical and irrational - except when it is a cone viewed from the top or the side in which case it is both at once.

[Zzyzx]

.
What strikes me as illogical and irrational are claims of knowledge or understanding of that which is unknown or beyond human comprehension. We do not know the origin of the universe and we do not know about the existence or characteristics of supernatural entities, though speculation is rife about both.

I have no problem saying "I don't know about that."

[tfvespasianus]

I do think there are a great many religious people that would concede that they don’t ‘know’ the exact nature of the Trinity. That is, beyond the positing what the doctrine says (i.e. three co-existent blah blah blahs), they would admit that they don’t know the ‘mechanics’ or complete specifics of this relationship. In fact, much to the derision of some critics the Trinity is held to be a mystery. Anecdotally, I find that when believers often delve into questions of definition on this matter they often (unwittingly) make statements that are heretical or tinged with heresy as positing specificity in regards to something that is a mystery can be dicey. Nonetheless, while I understand that some people want to criticize people who believe in something they don’t fully understand I have seen enough people approach this facet of their religion with humility.

take care,
TFV

[ttruscott]

The biggest question the Trinity cannot explain is, why three?
Why not four? Five? Six? Seven? etc. Why not a Million?

The Trinity is an idea that seems to be hinted at in Scripture and which some people, myself included, seem to have an inner resolution as being true. 4-7 are not hinted at. That is all.

I know that materialistic people have been struggling to supplant revelation with reason and logic as the only acceptable source of knowledge since Zenophanes in 400+ BC but haven't held sway over all philosophers yet let alone those who experience a revelatory moment. That is, the eternal indivisible 1 seems to some to be a necessity and only reasonably found in spiritual terms.

[JehovahsWitness]

The Trinity is illogical and irrational.

If The Son = God and The Father = God and the Spirit = God then The Son = The Father = The Spirit.

Which obviously is not the case since all three interact with each other as separate entities and did different things in the biblical stories.

The Son, The Father and The Spirit can form God together but not each be totally God.

1+1+1 = 3 and not 1.

1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 equals to 1 of course. But that's not what the Christian dogma says.

So is there anyone in here claiming that the Trinity can be explained logically and rationally?

As a non-trinitarian Christian, I would totally agree. Jesus said he was God's son and I non-bias reading of the Gospels would never lead the reader to assume Jesus was in anyway equal to His Father.


JEHOVAHS WITNESS

[ttruscott]

Unless......of course the Holy Spirit likes to change its mind and fool with believers which I highly doubt that would be considered as an explanation among Christian apologists.

While certainly not a change of mind just to harass the faithful, the Holy Spirit does certainly lead those committed to sin to be led astray. 2 Thess 2:10...and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness. would seem to support this theory somewhat IF we accept that some churches come under the suspicion of having been lost to the truth out of love for wickedness.

[ttruscott]

.
What strikes me as illogical and irrational are claims of knowledge or understanding of that which is unknown or beyond human comprehension. We do not know the origin of the universe and we do not know about the existence or characteristics of supernatural entities, though speculation is rife about both.

I have no problem saying "I don't know about that."

Isn't it the purview of philosophy to use what can be known by pure rationalism to replace dependance upon the ancient myths for our understanding of the world? In other words, to decide what you do know as an absolute and build from there?

But if reality is a duality of spirit and material, is not the philosopher struggling against reality to deny the place of revelation as giving "knowledge or understanding of that which is unknown or beyond human comprehension"? The rationalist is stuck with 'what can't be discerned can't be known' but those who accept revelation are free to learn about that which they cannot perceive from someone who does perceive...?

[marco]

The Trinity is illogical and irrational.

If The Son = God and The Father = God and the Spirit = God then The Son = The Father = The Spirit.

Which obviously is not the case since all three interact with each other as separate entities and did different things in the biblical stories.

The Son, The Father and The Spirit can form God together but not each be totally God.

1+1+1 = 3 and not 1.

1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 equals to 1 of course. But that's not what the Christian dogma says.

So is there anyone in here claiming that the Trinity can be explained logically and rationally?

If one accepts the Trinity, one has no concerns about logicality. It transcends human reason, being a mystery. That is the religious position. Attacking that position with a demand for reason is pointless.


It is also illogical to say that God is omnipresent: how can he be in Britain and on Mars simultaneously? But it is perfectly possible to accept this concept with faith.

Some of us have no faith in faith. I personally think that the Trinity may well be called a mystery but it is a mystery made by man. Monotheism requires one God. The Trinity is a method of squeezing three gods into one. There are many religious absurdities; the Trinity is just one of them.