Self-interest and altruism

[agnosticatheist]

It *seems* to be the case to me that all individuals act out of self-interest.

Humans seek outcomes which are desirable to them, and avoid outcomes that are undesirable to them.

Even someone who faces a firing squad because they refuse to renounce their religious beliefs (Normally, facing a firing squad would be considered an "undesirable" outcome...) is seeking a desirable outcome (the reward they will get for standing by their beliefs) and avoiding a negative outcome (being punished for not standing by their beliefs).

Can any action carried out by a human be purely altruistic?

Or, are all actions carried out by a human ultimately selfish/self-interested?

Personally, I can currently think of only one case, and that would be someone wanting to commit suicide but refraining from it because they don't want to cause grief for those around them.

There's no potential future guilt and/or social repercussions for the individual contemplating suicide if they go through with it and succeed, so why not do it and release themselves from their misery? In the end, they would be better off committing suicide, and yet if they refrain because they know it would negatively impact those around them, it must be the case that they are acting contrary to their own interests.

Is the individual in question acting contrary to their own interests if they refrain from suicide because it would negatively impact those around them?

[The Tanager]

[Replying to post 1 by agnosticatheist]

By 'purely altruistic' do you mean a person doing something that they see no benefit to themselves whatsoever? I'm not sure how that could be the case. Even in the suicide example, they would seem to have some joy in making other people happy, which would be a benefit to them. If they didn't care about other people being happy then why would they choose that over suicide in your example?

[Divine Insight]

I think the example you gave about not committing suicide for the sake of others is probably one of the best examples that could be found for altruism.

However, I wonder if humans are even capable of imagining the very idea of anyone committing an act that doesn't please them.

Consider that even the Gods they create in their mythologies have these same problems. For example, everything is always about "pleasing" the God or "displeasing" the God. There's not too many religions that I'm aware of where the God character offers to do good things for other people who haven't first pleased him.

So humans even push their selfishness onto the Gods they create.