The Bible is not the word of God

[DrProctopus]

A bunch of people who believed that God was talking to them wrote down what they believed God was saying.

The more relevant or successful scriptures were kept and eventually composed into the OT.

Something similar happend after Jesus did his thing, and the NT was produced.


Nowhere in this process do I see any reason to believe that every single word in the Bible is the word of God. Why should I believe someone when they claim to speak for God?

So, the point of debate is this:

Is there actually any decent reason to believe that the Bible is 100% the word of God?

[McCulloch]

Which goes to show what? That you are not skeptical by nature? That you have low standards of evidence?

My skepticism centered on how such a service could have been carried out if it wasn't legitimate. I deduced that, most likely, the healer and the 15 or so participants who verified the "healings" would have all had to have been in the "tank" together. Modern psychology militates against mass hysteria of this type. I also knew some of the participants and they were unlikely candidates for such a "hoax" (assuming it was a hoax to begin with). Feel free to provide an explanation of how this can be carried out.

These types of events have been reported by practitioners of various religions for centuries. Explanations are not required in the case of poorly controlled experiments. This is why a true skeptic would insist that there be independent validation of the diseases being healed and independent validation that the healing worked.

The next time you meet one of these healers, invite him to a local hospital or a local hospice. Get him to heal some truly bona fide sick people, out of his own controlled environment, away from the true believers, with doctors who know the particular patients' histories. That would be more convincing.

Isn't that "putting the Lord to the test"? Maybe most of those people on a given day deserve to be sick or disabled, due to sin, idolatry, etc. Why then should God heal them before they are humbled and come to their senses?

That all depends on the purpose of the miracles. If the purpose is to build (or create) faith, then go to a hospice and heal the terminally ill. I guarantee that a significant proportion of the genuinely healed will find faith. As far as I understand Biblical theology, we all deserve to be tortured eternally due to sin. So, are you asserting that the purpose of miracles is to reward the faithful? What a very nice safe viewpoint. If the healing does not work, no problem, the subject did not have enough faith. If the healing works, then praise God! You win both ways. But, if the purpose of miracles is to be kind and bring relief to the suffering, then you don't need a stadium. Just visit the sick and dying and heal them.

And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them [the apostles] and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen.

[quote="Hebrews 2]For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him, God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will?[/quote]

[Easyrider]

McCulloch wrote: That all depends on the purpose of the miracles. If the purpose is to build (or create) faith, then go to a hospice and heal the terminally ill. I guarantee that a significant proportion of the genuinely healed will find faith. As far as I understand Biblical theology, we all deserve to be tortured eternally due to sin. So, are you asserting that the purpose of miracles is to reward the faithful?

I believe I was asserting that (1): You shall not put the Lord to the test; and (2) that it’s probably pretty likely (according to Biblical theology) that some people are deserving of their permanent or temporary diseases, etc., until they die or are humbled. I’m also aware of many testimonials over the years where people in hospitals were divinely healed.

McCulloch wrote: If the healing does not work, no problem, the subject did not have enough faith. If the healing works, then praise God! You win both ways.

See above. We are discussing Biblical theology I believe, so you have to take into account those issues such as I mentioned.

Hebrews 2: For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him, God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will?

That’s it – “according to his will.”

But hang loose. I’ve heard of prophecies in the church that things like mass healings will occur at some point in the future. Whether those prophecies are of God I cannot say.

Blessings....

[Scrotum]

The majority of "illness" in the world is psychosomatic anyway. Is amazing what you can do or rather, not do to your body. I have not been sick for 5 years.

Isnt that odd? I had snivels and such, but i never been "sick". Never taken a day of from work because i "feelt ill". Why? Because i dont believe in it. I dont accept such things, and hence my body obeys.

Except certain obvious caes (cancer, aids etcetera) sickness to me, is all about the mind (psychosomatic). And if you have a bunch of people believing they will will good, better or whatnot, they will not, but should be able to heal themselves from whatever ´ills´ they have.

[McCulloch]

... it’s probably pretty likely (according to Biblical theology) that some people are deserving of their permanent or temporary diseases, etc., until they die or are humbled....

Do correct me if I am wrong but isn't everyone a sinner and deserving of whatever bad and nasty things God might inflict on us? There is no probably or some people.

[Easyrider]

... it’s probably pretty likely (according to Biblical theology) that some people are deserving of their permanent or temporary diseases, etc., until they die or are humbled....

Do correct me if I am wrong but isn't everyone a sinner and deserving of whatever bad and nasty things God might inflict on us?

What do the Scriptures say? There is therefore no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.

[joer]

McCulloch wrote:

correct me if I am wrong

Your wrong McCulloch.

Then McCulloch wrote:

but isn't everyone a sinner

Yeap! We all make mistakes. No one's perfect!

Then he wrote:

and deserving of whatever bad and nasty things

Nope! No one deserves "bad and nasty things" to happen to them. But we must deal with the consequences of our mistakes.

Then McCulloch writes:

bad and nasty things God might inflict on us?

God doesn't inflict "bad and nasty things" on anybody. Although some people probably blame God for what they think are "bad and nasty things" happening to them because they don't want to accept responsibility for the consequences of our mistakes.

It's really pretty simple and is not hard to understand for most people because they have Faith in God. But some people probably find that hard to understand because they don't have Faith or Belief in God,McCulloch. Hello again and Be Well my friend.

[Lotan]

God doesn't inflict "bad and nasty things" on anybody. Although some people probably blame God for what they think are "bad and nasty things" happening to them because they don't want to accept responsibility for the consequences of our mistakes.

You're so right!

Remember that 'tsunami' thing, a while back? I did that.

Sorry.

[McCulloch]

correct me if I am wrong

Your wrong McCulloch.

1. assertion does not equal correction
2. that would be You're not Your

but isn't everyone a sinner and deserving of whatever bad and nasty things.

Nope! No one deserves "bad and nasty things" to happen to them. But we must deal with the consequences of our mistakes.

Sinners do not deserve to have bad things happen to them (other than eternal torment) but when bad things happen, it is the consequence of their mistakes and they must learn to deal with it. Fair, Just and equitable.

bad and nasty things God might inflict on us?

God doesn't inflict "bad and nasty things" on anybody. Although some people probably blame God for what they think are "bad and nasty things" happening to them because they don't want to accept responsibility for the consequences of our mistakes.

Yes he does according to the Christians' Bible.

It's really pretty simple and is not hard to understand for most people because they have Faith in God. But some people probably find that hard to understand because they don't have Faith or Belief in God,McCulloch.

Circular. If you have faith in God you will understand. If you understand then you will have faith in God.

[Easyrider]

... it’s probably pretty likely (according to Biblical theology) that some people are deserving of their permanent or temporary diseases, etc., until they die or are humbled....

Do correct me if I am wrong but isn't everyone a sinner and deserving of whatever bad and nasty things God might inflict on us? There is no probably or some people.

Let me give you three examples of what I'm talking about:

1. (the following talking about the Lord’s Supper):

"For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. That is why many among you are weak and sick and a number of you have fallen asleep" (I Corinthians 11:29-30).

Conversely and logically, then, those who do honor the Lord’s Supper in the right way do not suffer the sickness and / or death associated with what we see above.

2. To the angel of the church in Thyatira write: "These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like blazing fire and whose feet are like burnished bronze. I know your deeds, your love and faith, your service and perseverance, and that you are now doing more than you did at first. Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. I have given her time to repents of her immorality, but she is unwilling. So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless she repents of her ways..." – Revelation chapter 2

3. Jesus to the invalid he healed: "Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you."

Beginning to see a pattern? Callous and unrepentent sin can bring illness or suffering. But if you're ever in such a predicament, dial 911 (9th verse of I John chapter 1): "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Cheers...

[Cathar1950]

"For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. That is why many among you are weak and sick and a number of you have fallen asleep" (I Corinthians 11:29-30).

Considering Paul felt Jesus was coming back soon or at least the last days were here he was running into a problem with people dying and getting sick.
Paul’s information concerning the Eucharist or the Lord's supper was received in a vision or he made it up because he didn’t receive it from any man but Jesus himself and Jesus had clearly died before Paul met him. I think it was a fellowship meal consisting of bread broken together and wine. It had nothing to do with Jesus body and blood a view abhorrent to Jews. His imagination taped into the rites of the mystery religions Tarsus being a center of such a cult makes it all the more suspect. But people being weak, sick or dead seems far fetch and lacks credibility to say the least.
I wonder how many Christians go to the doctor and the doc says "have you been taking communion?"

Conversely and logically, then, those who do honor the Lord’s Supper in the right way do not suffer the sickness and / or death associated with what we see above.

I see no logic in this. There are many sick dead people that partook of the Lord’s Supper in the right way or no one has done it right in the last 2000 years. This sounds pathetic, but that is Paul for you. I bet there are healthy live people that did it wrong too.

Beginning to see a pattern?

I guess so but I doubt it is the same one you’re inventing.