How Many One Gods can there be?

[McCulloch]

In another thread

Ok. If someone believes in a Creator God, then they are in accordance with every (real) religion.

Not really. How many gods are there ? Are the gods all-powerful ? Do they thirst for the blood of unbelievers ? What do the gods command us to do ? All of the major religions that we have today (yes, including Christianity, Judaism and Islam) disagree on these important points, and on many others as well.

This raises a question that, I think deserves its own discussion.

Do the major monotheist religions believe different things about the same god or do they believe in different gods?

For the moment let's discuss Judaism, Islam and the many flavours of Christianity and, if you will, Christian inspired religions. Let's ignore the claim made by some that trinitarian Christians are not monotheists, since they by their own peculiar twist of logic claim that they are monotheists.

On the one hand, every monotheist religion, by definition, makes the claim that there is only one god. Therefore, if someone not of that religion, makes reference to god, claiming as well, that there is one god, then it seems reasonable that they must be talking about the same god. Also, historically, the Christians claim that their god is identical to the god of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses and David. Islam claims that their Allah is the same god as the Christian's.

On the other hand, YHWH, the Christian's Triune god and Allah, bear very little resemblance to each other.

[Bro Dave]

This is exactly what the Urantia Book says as well. Mankind "mucks-up" whatever relative truths we are given, twisting them until after a while, they cease to provide anything of true spiritual value. So why then, is it such a surprise, when another revelation comes along, attempting to decontaminate what we have already been given, and adding a bit more, comenserate with our current ability to understand?

Bro Dave

[bernee51]

This is exactly what the Urantia Book says as well.

Along with how many other religions/philosophies?

... So why then, is it such a surprise, when another revelation comes along, attempting to decontaminate what we have already been given, and adding a bit more, comenserate with our current ability to understand?

Why should they, it is coming from man.

To truly understand 'divine revelation' it must come from the only source of the the 'divine' we have access to...the 'divine' that is within all sentient beings. Maester Eckhart said soimetning along the lines of..."the ultimate leave taking is leaving god for god"

Divine revelation, or more correctly, realization, is indeed a continuous and progressive process. It is evolutionary.

[Bro Dave]

This is exactly what the Urantia Book says as well.

Along with how many other religions/philosophies?

More and more Bernee. More and more…

... So why then, is it such a surprise, when another revelation comes along, attempting to decontaminate what we have already been given, and adding a bit more, commensurate with our current ability to understand?

Why should they, it is coming from man.

To truly understand 'divine revelation' it must come from the only source of the 'divine' we have access to...the 'divine' that is within all sentient beings. Maester Eckhart said something along the lines of..."the ultimate leave taking is leaving god for god"

Divine revelation, or more correctly, realization, is indeed a continuous and progressive process. It is evolutionary.

Ultimately, as you have alluded, there can be only one Source. However, as we humans struggle to attain the Infinite, we do so one step at a time. By re-compiling our successes, and admonishing us to search for our truths within, each external revelation moves us closer to the First Source and Center; the only truth.

Bro Dave

[bernee51]

Ultimately, as you have alluded, there can be only one Source. However, as we humans struggle to attain the Infinite, we do so one step at a time.

"One step at a time" will never gain access to the 'infinite' .

It is ONLY one step, it is either taken or it is not.

By re-compiling our successes, and admonishing us to search for our truths within, each external revelation moves us closer to the First Source and Center; the only truth.

The only thing that can be gained from 'external' sources is knowledge. Revelation (realization) can only be internal.

Realizing the First Source is realizing that too is illusory.

cheers

[nikolayevich]

Do the major monotheist religions believe different things about the same god or do they believe in different gods?

I would say that Christians and Jews believe in the God of the Bible, and Muslims believe in the god of the Koran. In Islam it is claimed that their god is the same as the Jews/Christians but their historical origins are not the same. Before there was a unified Islam under Mohammed there was a polytheistic Islam under which there were many gods, one of which was a moon god, which one can see has become a universal Islamic symbol used in association with Allah.

When speaking of whether there is one God which many religions speak of, I think it happens (as with Christianity/Judaism where they differ on various details but agree on origins, Israel, etc), but with other religions such as eastern mysticism and Islam they speak of gods which are not the same.

[McCulloch]

I would say that Christians and Jews believe in the God of the Bible, and Muslims believe in the god of the Koran. In Islam it is claimed that their god is the same as the Jews/Christians but their historical origins are not the same. Before there was a unified Islam under Mohammed there was a polytheistic Islam under which there were many gods, one of which was a moon god, which one can see has become a universal Islamic symbol used in association with Allah.

When speaking of whether there is one God which many religions speak of, I think it happens (as with Christianity/Judaism where they differ on various details but agree on origins, Israel, etc), but with other religions such as eastern mysticism and Islam they speak of gods which are not the same.

And yet the Muslims' Allah is the God worshipped by Abraham, Moses and Jesus according to the Qu'ran. And there are Jews who would claim that the Christian God-Who-Is-Human-and-Died is not at all the same as their God.

[Bro Dave]

Ultimately, as you have alluded, there can be only one Source. However, as we humans struggle to attain the Infinite, we do so one step at a time.

"One step at a time" will never gain access to the 'infinite' .

It is ONLY one step, it is either taken or it is not.

True, but the point is, taking that step! And for most humans, there are many baby steps before they discover that one crucial inward step; the only one ever needed.

By re-compiling our successes, and admonishing us to search for our truths within, each external revelation moves us closer to the First Source and Center; the only truth.

The only thing that can be gained from 'external' sources is knowledge. Revelation (realization) can only be internal.

There are two sources of revelation; Autorevelation, which is the divine within, and 101:4.3 epochal revelation when it is presented by the function of some other celestial agency, group, or personality. Both serve the purpose of bringing man and the divine together.

Realizing the First Source is realizing that too is illusory.

cheers

If so, what a WONDERFUL illusion it is…
Bro Dave

[Bugmaster]

God virtually lives within you, so that's a pretty good first step. Its a little like a baby/parent relationship. Does the baby understand its parents? No, yet the relationship is very deep and intense. The same it our relationship with God. He is there in an absolute support role, loving us unconditionally. The only difference in our relationship with God, is that it is voluntary on our side. If you choose to have no personal relationship, you may do so. Your call.

How do you know that any of the above is true ? If you answer, "because I've read it in the holy books", you'll contradict your earlier statement about the unreliability of holy books.

[Bro Dave]

God virtually lives within you, so that's a pretty good first step. Its a little like a baby/parent relationship. Does the baby understand its parents? No, yet the relationship is very deep and intense. The same it our relationship with God. He is there in an absolute support role, loving us unconditionally. The only difference in our relationship with God, is that it is voluntary on our side. If you choose to have no personal relationship, you may do so. Your call.

How do you know that any of the above is true ? If you answer, "because I've read it in the holy books", you'll contradict your earlier statement about the unreliability of holy books.

Bugmaster, God is there within, awaiting our willingness to greet Him. Our problems come from our preconceived notions of how God MUST present Himself, or we simply will not believe He is there. The unfortunate part of it all, is the need to shed our shells of pompacity, and approach Him as a child would approach his Loving Father. If we demand parlor tricks, or set any kinds of hurdle He must jump through, we will indeed come away disappointed. But, if we put our egos aside, and wait in the stillness of our inner beings, expecting nothing, just open to everything. Eventually, we will discern that "small still voice" within. From my personal experience, I find that it is less of a conversation, that an instantenous downloading of entire concepts. And, there is an overwhelming presents of being loved. Really though, it is the most personal experience possible, and probably as unique as we each are.

Bro Dave

[Bugmaster]

Bugmaster, God is there within, awaiting our willingness to greet Him...

Again, how do you know this is true ?

From my personal experience, I find that it is less of a conversation, that an instantenous downloading of entire concepts. And, there is an overwhelming presents of being loved. Really though, it is the most personal experience possible, and probably as unique as we each are.

Ok, I have not had this experience. Many people who have had it interpret it very differently; for example, Muslims interpret it as, "Allah wants us to kill Jews and other infidels right away". How do you know that you're right and they're wrong ?