Did Allah start Christianty?

[Burninglight]

Allah made it look like Jesus died, but he let someone die in Jesus' place to save Jesus according to the Quran. Isn't that a form of substitutionary death? This is something some Muslims tell me God doesn't do; so, I am confused about this.

The Quran states that the unbelievers plot and scheme with deception but Allah is the "best of deceivers" Some English translations state "the best of planners," in context, however, Allah does best what the unbelievers were doing which was deceiving; so, is Allah to blame for starting Christianity or did he know his deception would cause the birth of a religion that Islam could not comprehend or overcome? For instance, Christianity, IMO, has always been bigger, better and stronger than Islam and always will be!

[Burninglight]

Burninglight

QUOTE: "I don't believe God has or had partners. I don't know why you keep bringing that up. It is like you're the one who is insecure about it, because of Allah's three daughters prophesied by Muhammad hoping for their intercession. Don't say it is not true it is well documented. Besides, Muslim are divided the sunni and the Quranist who believe the second part of the shahadah is an association with Allah. The Bible was written 300 years after Christ? Please show your source.
After Abraham sent Hagar and Ishmael away, Isaac was his only son; once more, he was always his only son of promise. Jesus is not a descendant of Ishmael. If he was, I'd be a Muslim too. The irony is Muslim means one who submits to God, but that is not what Muslims do"

ANSWER: Forward your well documented evidence Burninglight so we can examine it. I have already refuted you about this before but I would be more than happy to do it again. Yes I am aware there are different sects in Islam, but there can only be one that is on the straight path following the true teachings of God and adhering to the truth. This was already told to us by Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Here is your source you requested:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14526a.htm

The command for sacrifice came before Isaac was born, it's up to you to prove what you say. Muslims don't submit to God??, lol

QUOTE: "I didn't say Jesus was the destination. I said he was not a messenger of God; He is God's message, and He is the only one who leads us to our eternal destination and the only one who is the author and finisher of our faith.
Jn 5 God judges no man put has committed all judgment unto the son so that they honor the son the same as the father. He that doesn't honor the son the same as the father, honors not the father who sent Him (Or sent His word). IOW, if we don't honor the word of God the same as we honor God we are not honoring God. The NT reveals the OT.
I am not misrepresenting the Scripture. Jesus wasn't saying I am the way to the mansion; He said. "No man comes to the father (God) but through me." That is what is clear. Maybe, a little reading comprehension might help in this case"

ANSWER: He Certainly isn't God lol, He only came with God's words and Message, of course he is the Messenger of God.

As for John 5:22-23

The verse does not imply or suggest the same honoring should be given to the Son as the Father. The verse says that both of them equally deserve the right of being honored, however this doesn't mean the honor is equal. Because to honor the Son is to honor the Father. This is like the verse John 14:6-10 where Jesus (peace be upon him) says:

6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."8Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us. 9Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

Jesus (peace be upon him) did not mean that people who have literally seen him have seen the Father because we all know that no one has ever seen God:

1 John 4:12

12No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

Rather what Jesus (peace be upon him) meant was that if they knew him and acknowledged him for who he was then they acknowledged the Father.

So basically both Jesus (peace be upon him) and the Father deserve honor. But Jesus (peace be upon him) did not say that the same honor should be given to both of them.

I think a little reading comprehension is required on your part Burninglight cause if we read from the beginning of this chapter, we would find that just before Jesus spoke these words, he said:

"In my Father's house are many mansions (dwelling places); if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a mansion (a dwelling place) for you."

What else would we expect a prophet of God to say except "I am the 'way to God's mercy"? That is his job. That is what a prophet does. It is why God chose him in the first place, in order to guide to the mercy of God.

This is further confirmed in John 10:9 where Jesus (peace be upon him) tells us that he is "the door" to "the pasture." In other words, he is the "prophet" who guides his people to "heaven" Once again, this is the message of Islam.

Furthermore Jesus (peace be upon him) said:

"Not every one that says to me(Jesus); 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of my Father, who is in heaven."

Hence believing in Jesus (peace be upon him) is not enough to enter heaven rather it is obeying the commands of God.

Jesus is all that God is but not all there is to God. Philip wanted to see God, but when he looked at Jesus he was seeing a prophet that was equal to God in nature, essence and character, but less than God in office, position and function. You don't understand who Jesus was. He said, "No one comes to the father except through me" He meant that for all times not just then and for the Jews. He came onto His own and they rejected Him; but as many as received Him to them gave He the power to become the sons of God. Jesus gives this power and Jesus will be doing all the judging in the end

[HaLi8993]

Burninglight

QUOTE: "Jesus is all that God is but not all there is to God. Philip wanted to see God, but when he looked at Jesus he was seeing a prophet that was equal to God in nature, essence and character, but less than God in office, position and function. You don't understand who Jesus was. He said, "No one comes to the father except through me" He meant that for all times not just then and for the Jews. He came onto His own and they rejected Him; but as many as received Him to them gave He the power to become the sons of God. Jesus gives this power and Jesus will be doing all the judging in the end"

ANSWER: Nope, Jesus (peace be upon him) is what he is (man) and God is what He is (God) which we have never seen hence cannot compare God with Man, as He is what suits His Majesty. I don't understand how was Phillip seeing a Prophet when you believe that Jesus (peace be upon him) is not a Prophet?? God is unlike creation how can you compare God to creation, what evidence can you show me that suggests it was for all time? Jesus (peace be upon him) will do all the judging?? Where does God fit into this equation?

[Burninglight]

Burninglight

QUOTE: "Jesus is all that God is but not all there is to God. Philip wanted to see God, but when he looked at Jesus he was seeing a prophet that was equal to God in nature, essence and character, but less than God in office, position and function. You don't understand who Jesus was. He said, "No one comes to the father except through me" He meant that for all times not just then and for the Jews. He came onto His own and they rejected Him; but as many as received Him to them gave He the power to become the sons of God. Jesus gives this power and Jesus will be doing all the judging in the end"

ANSWER: Nope, Jesus (peace be upon him) is what he is (man) and God is what He is (God) which we have never seen hence cannot compare God with Man, as He is what suits His Majesty. I don't understand how was Phillip seeing a Prophet when you believe that Jesus (peace be upon him) is not a Prophet?? God is unlike creation how can you compare God to creation, what evidence can you show me that suggests it was for all time? Jesus (peace be upon him) will do all the judging?? Where does God fit into this equation?

yes, Jesus was true man and true God. His virgin birth is significant in showing is uniqueness over all prophets. I never said Jesus was not a prophet. He is the prophet of prophets. Perhaps you are confusing my saying HE is not a messenger; He is the message. I mean that in the sense that angels are messengers not prophets. In fact, Islam's Gabriel (an impersonating demon) was the messenger in Muhammad's case not Muhammad. So I can't say Muhammad was a messenger or a prophet. And I can't see the oneness of Allah when he says "We sent down to Muhammad..." that begs the question, who was Allah speaking to? And when the Quran states that Allah prayed for Muhammad, who was he praying to. There are lots of problems with islam and many discrepancies in the Quran. This is just the tip of the iceberg

[HaLi8993]

Burninglight

QUOTE: "yes, Jesus was true man and true God. His virgin birth is significant in showing is uniqueness over all prophets. I never said Jesus was not a prophet. He is the prophet of prophets. Perhaps you are confusing my saying HE is not a messenger; He is the message. I mean that in the sense that angels are messengers not prophets. In fact, Islam's Gabriel (an impersonating demon) was the messenger in Muhammad's case not Muhammad. So I can't say Muhammad was a messenger or a prophet. And I can't see the oneness of Allah when he says "We sent down to Muhammad..." that begs the question, who was Allah speaking to? And when the Quran states that Allah prayed for Muhammad, who was he praying to. There are lots of problems with islam and many discrepancies in the Quran. This is just the tip of the iceberg"

ANSWER: There is no evidence of God being three different entities, his Virgin birth was unique to his Prophethood, this miracle does not make him above other Prophets. Jesus (peace be upon him) is a Prophet and Messenger, yes he did bring the message to those who believed in him at the time. So now Gabriel is a demon lol?? Evidence please!

What does the oneness of Allah got to do with "We sent down to Muhammad...." you are not making any sense and I really don't understand what you are intending to mean at all. There are no discrepancies in Islam you are only trying to make something out of nothing. Give me some references Burninglight. Instead of your opinion. And let us examine the facts and not fiction.

[Burninglight]

Burninglight

QUOTE: "yes, Jesus was true man and true God. His virgin birth is significant in showing is uniqueness over all prophets. I never said Jesus was not a prophet. He is the prophet of prophets. Perhaps you are confusing my saying HE is not a messenger; He is the message. I mean that in the sense that angels are messengers not prophets. In fact, Islam's Gabriel (an impersonating demon) was the messenger in Muhammad's case not Muhammad. So I can't say Muhammad was a messenger or a prophet. And I can't see the oneness of Allah when he says "We sent down to Muhammad..." that begs the question, who was Allah speaking to? And when the Quran states that Allah prayed for Muhammad, who was he praying to. There are lots of problems with islam and many discrepancies in the Quran. This is just the tip of the iceberg"

ANSWER: There is no evidence of God being three different entities, his Virgin birth was unique to his Prophethood, this miracle does not make him above other Prophets. Jesus (peace be upon him) is a Prophet and Messenger, yes he did bring the message to those who believed in him at the time. So now Gabriel is a demon lol?? Evidence please!

What does the oneness of Allah got to do with "We sent down to Muhammad...." you are not making any sense and I really don't understand what you are intending to mean at all. There are no discrepancies in Islam you are only trying to make something out of nothing. Give me some references Burninglight. Instead of your opinion. And let us examine the facts and not fiction.

I can see you are addressing the trinity again; well, Look at S 33: 43,56 and tell me who was Allah praying to for Muhammad and when Allah said "We" who was he talking to? If you say it is a term of royal respect, who did Allah need to respect? Himself? lol Why do you have to associate Muhammad with Allah in the shahadah?

[Asher]

Peace be upon you;

I can see you are addressing the trinity again; well, Look at S 33: 43,56 and tell me who was Allah praying to for Muhammad and when Allah said "We" who was he talking to? If you say it is a term of royal respect, who did Allah need to respect? Himself? lol

Waw, you really have a shortage of argument, every thread that you are commenting you put forth the same argument;

Why do you have to associate Muhammad with Allah in the shahadah?

This is not association:
You christian says that if you don't accept Jesus you will go to hell;
Same here if we don't accept Muhammad(saw) as the prophet of Allah we will go to hell; it is as simple as that;

Peace be upon you all;

[HaLi8993]

Burninglight

ANSWER: Sorry Burninglight but I'm not understanding anything of this post. Here are the two verses you have mentioned, can you point out where Allah is praying to for Muhammad and when Allah said "We"?? This question of who would God need to respect should be directed at yourself seeing as you believe that God is three.

33:43

"It is He who confers blessing upon you, and His angels [ask Him to do so] that He may bring you out from darknesses into the light. And ever is He, to the believers, Merciful"

33:53

"O you who have believed, do not enter the houses of the Prophet except when you are permitted for a meal, without awaiting its readiness. But when you are invited, then enter; and when you have eaten, disperse without seeking to remain for conversation. Indeed, that [behavior] was troubling the Prophet, and he is shy of [dismissing] you. But Allah is not shy of the truth. And when you ask [his wives] for something, ask them from behind a partition. That is purer for your hearts and their hearts. And it is not [conceivable or lawful] for you to harm the Messenger of Allah or to marry his wives after him, ever. Indeed, that would be in the sight of Allah an enormity"

Furthermore can you explain to me how the shahada is associating partners with Allah. Just because Allah and Muhammad (peace be upon him) are in the same sentence does not mean that they are equal in authority. Unless you say something like if Allah wills and you will this would be considered as Minor Shirk because you are making an equal with Allah.

[Burninglight]

Burninglight

ANSWER: Sorry Burninglight but I'm not understanding anything of this post. Here are the two verses you have mentioned, can you point out where Allah is praying to for Muhammad and when Allah said "We"?? This question of who would God need to respect should be directed at yourself seeing as you believe that God is three.

33:43

"It is He who confers blessing upon you, and His angels [ask Him to do so] that He may bring you out from darknesses into the light. And ever is He, to the believers, Merciful"

33:53

"O you who have believed, do not enter the houses of the Prophet except when you are permitted for a meal, without awaiting its readiness. But when you are invited, then enter; and when you have eaten, disperse without seeking to remain for conversation. Indeed, that [behavior] was troubling the Prophet, and he is shy of [dismissing] you. But Allah is not shy of the truth. And when you ask [his wives] for something, ask them from behind a partition. That is purer for your hearts and their hearts. And it is not [conceivable or lawful] for you to harm the Messenger of Allah or to marry his wives after him, ever. Indeed, that would be in the sight of Allah an enormity"

Furthermore can you explain to me how the shahada is associating partners with Allah. Just because Allah and Muhammad (peace be upon him) are in the same sentence does not mean that they are equal in authority. Unless you say something like if Allah wills and you will this would be considered as Minor Shirk because you are making an equal with Allah.

Those verse are translated incorrectly and on purpose. Look at them in the Arabic.
It translates to Allah praying for Muhammad. It shouldn't be to difficult for you to research. If I can do it and I am not a Muslim, you should.

[HaLi8993]

Burninglight

QUOTE: "Those verse are translated incorrectly and on purpose. Look at them in the Arabic. It translates to Allah praying for Muhammad. It shouldn't be to difficult for you to research. If I can do it and I am not a Muslim, you should"

ANSWER: lol, your kidding right?? Find me a translation that says this for me, that's the problem you haven't done it, your Anti Islamic websites have fooled you once again he he.

[Burninglight]

Burninglight

QUOTE: "Those verse are translated incorrectly and on purpose. Look at them in the Arabic. It translates to Allah praying for Muhammad. It shouldn't be to difficult for you to research. If I can do it and I am not a Muslim, you should"

ANSWER: lol, your kidding right?? Find me a translation that says this for me, that's the problem you haven't done it, your Anti Islamic websites have fooled you once again he he.

Did you look it up in Arabic? Take a look at this video in its entirety and you see the error of your questioning me lol