Sonni and Shi'eh

[Yusef]

Salam,
What's the meaning of them?
Shi'eh means "the follower"
The Prophet(S.A) said:
"In the future my nation will be 73beliefs, and each of them say We are the truth! but just one of them is the original..."
Well, which of them is the real Shi'eh of the Prophet?
Let's go do discuss for find the real Sonnat.
*Notic: we should not search the FOLLOWERS of beliefs! we should search the DOCTRINE of beliefs.
Salam.

[Yusef]

Sonnat means the Law(of the Prophet)
Shi'eh means the Follower(of the Prophet)
Ahle-Sonnat(The Sonni's believers) say:Just the Qor'an is our book, and we should follow Qor'an, and after the Prophet(s.a) for understanding Qor'an we don't have need to Scholars, and anyone his own is mights to commentaries it..
They[Wahhabies] believe matterial God who has a white ass and comes down on the earth and goes up to the sky[Na'udoBAllah]
And say: we are real followers of the Prophet(s.a)...
Ahle-Tashayyo'(The Shi'eh's believers) say:
Qor'an and or other holy books aren't normal books, and have many secrets that we can't understand it..
but after the Prophet(s.a) there were 12 Imams who were most scholars in all sciences!
I have a question for brothers of Ahle-Sonnat:
If you say that Qor'an is just same its appearance, I say you: It's the better for you if read many Surehs from the older holy books!
means the Surehs of "Yusef", "Ebrahim", "Nuh", and more... in the Torah are more complete than Qor'an!!

[Yusef]

...Christians knew more about it than them or than what is documented in the Quran or Sunnah. Allah implied that the three are the Father, Mary and the son, because he says don't say three, and he also questions Jesus asking "Did you say take your mother and yourself as two Gods besides me?"

Okay, this is a useful title for discussion.
I told the doctrine of Shi'eh that says we mightn't commentate the holy books[Towrat,Zabur,Enjil,Qoran]
The All--->Encoder--->Qor'an
Qor'an--->Decoder--->Hadiths
Hadiths--->Detector--->The Truth
The Truth--->Behaviour--->The Evolution
The Encoder is same God,
Qor'an is same original OT/NT,
The Decoder is same The Prophets and The Imams,
The Detector is same Scholars, and or anyone who clears himself from sins:
Jealousy, Lie, Arrogance...

For example:
...And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee; behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; Twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.[Torah/Barshit/17:20]
This had been done, but its target had was for The Twelver(a.s), The Children of The Prophet Mohammad(s.a)!
Also:
[A Psalm] of Solomon. Give the king Thy judgments, O God, and Thy righteousness unto the king's son;
2 That he may judge Thy people with righteousness, and Thy poor with justice...[Zabur/72]
This had been done for Prophet Dawud and his son, Solayman,
but its target was for The Prophet Mohammad(s.a) and his son, The Imam Mahdi(a.s)!

[Burninglight]

...Christians knew more about it than them or than what is documented in the Quran or Sunnah. Allah implied that the three are the Father, Mary and the son, because he says don't say three, and he also questions Jesus asking "Did you say take your mother and yourself as two Gods besides me?"

Okay, this is a useful title for discussion.
I told the doctrine of Shi'eh that says we mightn't commentate the holy books[Towrat,Zabur,Enjil,Qoran]
The All--->Encoder--->Qor'an
Qor'an--->Decoder--->Hadiths
Hadiths--->Detector--->The Truth
The Truth--->Behaviour--->The Evolution
The Encoder is same God,
Qor'an is same original OT/NT,
The Decoder is same The Prophets and The Imams,
The Detector is same Scholars, and or anyone who clears himself from sins:
Jealousy, Lie, Arrogance...

For example:
...And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee; behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; Twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.[Torah/Barshit/17:20]
This had been done, but its target had was for The Twelver(a.s), The Children of The Prophet Mohammad(s.a)!
Also:
[A Psalm] of Solomon. Give the king Thy judgments, O God, and Thy righteousness unto the king's son;
2 That he may judge Thy people with righteousness, and Thy poor with justice...[Zabur/72]
This had been done for Prophet Dawud and his son, Solayman,
but its target was for The Prophet Mohammad(s.a) and his son, The Imam Mahdi(a.s)!

SOME SCHOLARS CONTEND that Muhammad is not a descendant of Ishmael. I always thought he was, but they give a good debate on their position.
But let’s say for arguments sake he is and that he is the heir God promised would be blessed and out of him comes the twelve princes. I can accept that, but I don't see were in the Bible god promised prophets would come out of Ishmael. Hagar and her son were cast out from the promise of prophet hood, but he was made to be strong with everyone against him and him against everyone. This is what I see going on in the world. All that are not Muslim are against Islam and Islam is against them. Islam is a thorn in the side of the world, but Christianity is a thorn in the side of Islam that they cannot remove.

Gen 21: 8 And the child grew and was weaned. And Abraham made a great feast on the day that Isaac was weaned. 9 But Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, whom she had borne to Abraham, laughing. 10 So she said to Abraham, “Cast out this slave woman with her son, for the son of this slave woman shall not be heir with my son Isaac.� 11 And the thing was very displeasing to Abraham on account of his son. 12 But God said to Abraham, “Be not displeased because of the boy and because of your slave woman. Whatever Sarah says to you, do as she tells you, for through Isaac shall your offspring be named. 13 And I will make a nation of the son of the slave woman also, because he is your offspring.�

Ishmael was blessed but no prophet; therefore, Muhammad is no prophet of God according to the Scriptures that came before. If God said prophets would come out of Ishmael or that Ishmael was a prophet, you would have an argument, but there is nothing in the Bible to support Muhammad a prophet except to grasping at straws and irrelevant weak inferences that are taken totally out of context of Scripture. Additionally, Allah was the moon god during pre Islamic history that Muhammad claimed to be or made the all powerful, all knowing God, but this all knowing god didn't know what the Bible shows to be true regarding the tri unity of God! That is awful fishy to me. So you tell me why didn't Allah know that the Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit is God? Why didn't he know that Christians always believed this?

Additionally, Muhammad along with all others of his contemporaries learned that God was one but from where? The Jews and the Christians believed God was one before he did and still do today. It is the Muslims that accuse Christians of association, but that is what Muslims do when they say the last part of the Shahadah, and if they don’t mention Muhammad they cannot be a Muslim. Christians never associate any none deity as pertains to their salvation and or eternal life with God.

[Yusef]

SOME SCHOLARS CONTEND that...

They are scholars in your and their own opinion

* Who is a scholar?
One who is upgrading his own wise
Maybe a illitreate is a scholar, but a university student is not a scholar.

* The Truth of Islam doesn't have need to scholar
Just has need to clear arrogance
For these reasonings many people convert to Islam daily.

[LaaIlahaIllAllah]

Are you a confused raafidi, or what's your deal?

Sonnat means the Law(of the Prophet)
Shi'eh means the Follower(of the Prophet)
Ahle-Sonnat(The Sonni's believers) say:Just the Qor'an is our book, and we should follow Qor'an, and after the Prophet(s.a) for understanding Qor'an we don't have need to Scholars, and anyone his own is mights to commentaries it..

If you're saying that Sunnis just follow Quran and not ahadeeth or scholars and things like that, then you are incorrect bud. And not our own commentaries but with the understanding of the early generations.

They[Wahhabies] believe matterial God who has a white ass and comes down on the earth and goes up to the sky[Na'udoBAllah]

Astaghfirullah, you are one sick son of mut'ah by your raafidi priest. Who has been spoon feeding you lies that you somehow believed. Where do you get this information from??

Also, why do you call Sunnis "wahhabis"? Are you trying to mock the name of Allah (Subhana wa Ta'ala) - Al-Wahhab?

And say: we are real followers of the Prophet(s.a)...
Ahle-Tashayyo'(The Shi'eh's believers) say:
Qor'an and or other holy books aren't normal books, and have many secrets that we can't understand it..
but after the Prophet(s.a) there were 12 Imams who were most scholars in all sciences!

Yes, along with all kinds of shirk in your books!! In your most authentic ahadeeth book, Al-Kafi, it says that the Quran is originally 17000 verses!! This is pure kufr, and it is graded authentic by your scholars!!

I have a question for brothers of Ahle-Sonnat:
If you say that Qor'an is just same its appearance, I say you: It's the better for you if read many Surehs from the older holy books!
means the Surehs of "Yusef", "Ebrahim", "Nuh", and more... in the Torah are more complete than Qor'an!!

No idea what you're talking about.

[Burninglight]

SOME SCHOLARS CONTEND that...

They are scholars in your and their own opinion

* Who is a scholar?
One who is upgrading his own wise
Maybe a illitreate is a scholar, but a university student is not a scholar.

* The Truth of Islam doesn't have need to scholar
Just has need to clear arrogance
For these reasonings many people convert to Islam daily.

I don't really understand what your trying to say, but I am surprise to hear you say they " convert" to Islam. Any Muslim knowledgeable of Islam would say they "revert." Muslims believe all are born Muslim. Muslim means one who submits to God, but that is not what I believe they are doing when they deny Jesus is the son of God.

Moreover, I don't need to be a scholar to know about Ishmael and to know that Ishmael was no prophet. Just read Gen 21:12. I can accept Muhammmad was his descendant. Since you also claim Muhmmad was Ishmael's descendant, then Muhammad died still waiting for his prophet passport.

BTW, there is no record that during the life of Muhammad that he made claim to being a prophet or that anyone said he was one; in fact, there was never a divine mandate given that the Quran should be written. Quran means recitation; how does one get write out of say?

Uthman could be Islam's biggest problem. He burned all the original Qurans and those Muslims that memorized it were killed. Uthman used Hafsa's copy to recompile the Quran; he left out verses regarding Muhammad's Satanic verses about Allah's 3 daughter's who's intercession was hoped for.

After Hafsa's death Marwa destroyed her copy. Who knows how much and what else was changed after Muhammad's death. After all, it was after his death when all the Quran was put together in writing as one book. The Quran was supposed to confirm the Torah and Injeel, but it usurps it, and tries to grossly distort it. Additionally, why would there be a need to destroy Hafsa's copy of the Quran if it were so perfect?

Finally, Quran 10:94 tells Muhammad to ask us people of the Book whether he is a prophet, and we can tell him (if he were still living) or you Muslims the answer!

PBUY

[LaaIlahaIllAllah]

I don't really understand what your trying to say, but I am surprise to hear you say they " convert" to Islam. Any Muslim knowledgeable of Islam would say they "revert."

Even knowledgeable Muslims might say "convert" though of course they do believe, as you said, that people are born with a natural disposition of Islam, but anyways we shouldn't get stuck on words like that.

Moreover, I don't need to be a scholar to know about Ishmael and to know that Ishmael was no prophet. Just read Gen 21:12.

"For you is your religion, and for me is my religion."

I can accept Muhammmad was his descendant. Since you also claim Muhmmad was Ishmael's descendant, then Muhammad died still waiting for his prophet passport.

huh

BTW, there is no record that during the life of Muhammad that he made claim to being a prophet or that anyone said he was one; in fact, there was never a divine mandate given that the Quran should be written. Quran means recitation; how does one get write out of say?

hadiths

Uthman could be Islam's biggest problem. He burned all the original Qurans and those Muslims that memorized it were killed. Uthman used Hafsa's copy to recompile the Quran; he left out verses regarding Muhammad's Satanic verses about Allah's 3 daughter's who's intercession was hoped for.

After Hafsa's death Marwa destroyed her copy. Who knows how much and what else was changed after Muhammad's death. After all, it was after his death when all the Quran was put together in writing as one book. The Quran was supposed to confirm the Torah and Injeel, but it usurps it, and tries to grossly distort it. Additionally, why would there be a need to destroy Hafsa's copy of the Quran if it were so perfect?

Uthman (ra) didn't burn all the original Qurans, he burned the other ahruf and kept the most original one as to prevent confusion and differences among the people.

Also, many people who memorized the Quran were killed but surely not all of them since multitudes of people memorized the Quran.

After the prophet's death (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) the Quran was compiled into one book, as you said, but it was written down during the lifetime of the prophet (peace be upon him), just not compiled.

The Quran does confirm the Taurat and Injeel. You can look at this two ways and both are correct. First, the original Taurat and Injeel that were revealed to the prophets Moses and Jesus respectively (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon them both) were unchanged and had no differences with the Quran in stories and things like that. Second, you can look at them as they are today, the Torah speaks of One God - Quran confirms. We don't even have the Injeel in Bible except for prophet Jesus' (peace be upon him) quotes which also speak of being sent by God.

The hafsa thing being destroyed, I dunno the history behind that but many were burned and destroyed so there's prolly some good reason.
Also, the Quran is a mutawaatir report meaning that it was reported and narrated/recited the same by multiple chains of people going back to the prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). If there were many different ones which were corrupted from the time and things like that then it wouldn't be mutawaatir.

The Satanic verses story comes from a fabricated hadeeth. Even if we were to assume that it was not fabricated, when you dig a little deeper into the issue, you realize that the conditions are so unreal and ridiculous that it's laughable to even second glance such a thing.

The Christian missionaries just hang on to that so as to provide a diversion for the fact that their god was tempted by the devil in their own Bible - which also says that God cannot be tempted.....

Finally, Quran 10:94 tells Muhammad to ask us people of the Book whether he is a prophet, and we can tell him (if he were still living) or you Muslims the answer!

This verse says (interpretation of meaning): "So if you are in doubt, [O Muhammad], about that which We have revealed to you, then ask those who have been reading the Scripture before you. The truth has certainly come to you from your Lord, so never be among the doubters." - if you look at the immediate context before this verse, it's about the story of prophet Moses (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), pharaoh and the Children of Israel. And even in today's Bible the stories are similar.

[Yusef]

you are one sick son of mut'ah by your raafidi priest

- How do you know that I'm son of mut'eh and follower of raafizi priest??
- How you say an affront to me?
- How you aren't afraid of Allah?
Why you say ignorantly an affront to your Prophet(s.a) and your own first Khalifeh[AbuBakr]?
The Imam 6th, Imam Ja'far Sadeq(a.s) was son of "Omme Farweh" the doughter of Qasem ibn Mohammad ibn Abu Bakr. And he is my grand grand father.
- How do you know that The Mahdi(in your belief), will born in my generation?
- How you say in each one of the Say prays:
AllahomaSalliAlaMohammadenWaAleMohammad
and say this affront to me?

Where do you get this information from??

I watched an Islamic channel TV that showed the book of "Ibn-Taymieh" that has written:
"...and God Has red clothes..."(Nau'doBAllah)

why do you call Sunnis "wahhabis"?

When I called that???

along with all kinds of shirk in your books!!

Why you believe that the behaviours of the people of Shi'eh are the same behaviours of the commands of doctrine of Shi'eh?
Where Ahadith has written that The Imams(a.s) have said obey us??
Also I told here that you are truth in this belief:
An Important Question

[Burninglight]

I can see the unity between Muslims. If Uthman didn't burn the Qurans there would be even less unity. But there still are Muslims that just stick to the Quran only because the Sunnah has associations in it such as the last part of the Shahadah. In order to be a Muslim, you must mention the name of Muhammad with Allah. Christians don't have to mention the name of any non deity for their salvation. The Hadiths do not prove that Muhammad or any one less claimed he was a prophet. The evidence for this came after his death. I challenge any Muslim to prove this is wrong. Where are there any manuscripts documented that Muhammad was a prophet from the time he was alive?
Allah is the biggest problem in Islam, because he is the best of deceivers. No Muslim knows if they can trust Allah. Even Abu Bakr said to the affect I wouldn't trust the makr of Allah if I had one foot in paradise and one on earth. Allah cannot be trusted. He lied about Jesus to the Jews making it look like he died, but he also lied to the Arabs and the world by saying he didn't die. Allah shows that he didn't understand the Christian concept of the trinity. He implys that the trinity consisted of the father, mother and the son. He never mentioned the Holy Spirit. I could never follow an ignorant god. Why should anyone fear such a deceiving god? Satan is known to be the father of lies. I see such a correlation that and the best of deceivers