Why are 'they' here?

[bernee51]

Apropos of the other discussion (Why are we here?) - this has been on my mind.

Since the inception of this forum (or the year+ I have been involved) there have been a number of what I would describe as 'hard-line' christians who have dropped by. In recent times Bill55AZ, greenlight, sender, kens91765 and unicorn would be examples. My observation is that many that do come, spout their beliefs, often resort to ad hominems then leave after they are challenged. I also know from experience that many then go back to their 'christian' fora and relate how they "gave it" to the unbelievers.

I note (with a chuckle) that I am on the 'ignore list' of two - Bill55AZ and kens91765

So why do they come? To proseletyze? To have their beliefs 'stroked'? To reinforce their views of the 'godless' and those they consider not to be 'true christians'?

The title of this forum is 'Debating..." So why do they come when debating (which implies a willingness to be challenged and ultimately learn) is the furtherest thing from their mind?

[Zarathustra]

Ah, go easy on them, Bernee.

Perhaps it is as you say, and they are here to proselytize. That seems to be the most logical reason (and for Atheists and Agnostics there is nothing better than logical reasons), it's certainly not for self-examination and spiritual exploration.

Or, perhaps, they are honestly trying but simply aren't very good at getting their points across. That is, to paraphrase (the speaker, however, escapes my mind), ' I have a hard enough time remembering all of my opinions, much less my reasons.'

I will say this in their defense: many of them did/do their best to remain civil.


So, to sum up my post in a single sentence, my answer is a resounding "I'm not sure, either".

[bernee51]

Ah, go easy on them, Bernee.

I try to treat them all with fairness and objectivity. If 'going easy' means putting up with their close minded adherence to dogma and refusal to address issues...they can reap as they sow...as the saying goes.

Or, perhaps, they are honestly trying but simply aren't very good at getting their points across.

That may be true...but they can all read. They can educate themselves before spouting off with nonsense (like no cro-magnon or neanderthal bones). All they appear to want to read though is whatever supports their opinion. How many would have seriously ventured onto talk.origins or infdels.org. Or read the works of Doherty or Barker.

That said - I personally have not ventured into McDowell or Strobel with any depth...but at least I know relatively well what their arguments are.

, ' I have a hard enough time remembering all of my opinions, much less my reasons.'

Yep - that sounds like me

I will say this in their defense: many of them did/do their best to remain civil.

My experience is that their appears to be an inverse relationship between degree of fundamentalism and civility. Although I do admit to there being exceptions.

[McCulloch]

Like Bernee, I can remember some of those Christians who come here hoping to witness, appearing to believe that somehow no one here had heard the Message of the Gospel™. They usually leave after they have been challenged to defend their position with logic, reason and evidence and after they have broken at least a few of the rules. I am still trying to figure out how Christian ethics allow for the breaking of rules, created by a fellow Christian, that the debater him/her self has agreed to.

I engage them. Sometimes for sport, sometimes in the vain hope that perhaps they will see that their arguments are not quite as unassailable as they might think. sigh. I'm still waiting for Gandalf to return. For the most part, the ones that stay, learn to debate the facts, challenge our assumptions and to counter our arguments.

Unfortunately, some of them leave with the mistaken belief that this is a site where a bunch of non-believers beat up on and discredit Christianity. This site would lose its purpose if that were the case. We should always take care to attack the argument not the arguer; to be civil and respectful. Yet to challenge their belief statements with logic and evidence.

[QED]

It does seem rather odd how us degenerate, nihilistic, heathens seem to occupy the higher ground when it comes to common civility. I do hope I'm not making too much of a generalization, but I honestly can't recall any A/A here matching our theistic brethren for bad behavior. The only character that I recall coming anywhere near close was Abnoxio who had his own Fundamentalist shooting gallery of a website. Even then, I think I'm confusing some of the stuff on his website with what he brought here... can anyone think of an A/A they'd like to see reign it in a bit? (apart from yours truly of course )

[Zarathustra]

Well, QED, sometimes one of "them" comes along that disrupts the civility and respectfulness of many A/As (and other civil and respectful posters), and even some civil and respectful Christians!

The past few days harbor many prime examples of that.

[ENIGMA]

Perhaps if we really wish to know why "they" are here, it would be best to inquire in a section of the forums where they could respond.

Just a thought.

[Zarathustra]

That would make sense, ENIGMA, but I think this was supposed to be more of a complaints thread where we can vent about "them" so we don't get banned when we are debating "them"

[Tim the Skeptic]

Hey, I just looked at my profile and I'm ignored by Kens91765, too!! SCORE!!

I gotta find this Bill55AZ and tick him off and then I can achieve bernee-like status.

To the topic, I believe some of them come because here you can have a serious civil discussion. Many atheists are former church-goers so you know that the vast majority of churches are worthless if you want to have a theological discussion. The assumption is that if you're willing to walk in the door, you believe like they do so there's no need to discuss any of these "heavy" issues like The Problem of Evil. In the U.S., it seems like 99% of the church goers want good music, bad coffee, some doughnuts and to chit-chat with their fellow believers. Even in adult education, it follows a script.

Teacher: What should we do if we see a homeless person?

Adult Student: Oh, the Christian thing is to give him a dollar.

No controvesy, no real discussion, no real thinking.

I believe that the Christians that come here know that their ideas will be taken very seriously, even if it's only by someone who's trying to kick their ass!! We pay more attention and are more willing to listen to them than their fellow Christians.

[ST88]

So why do they come? To proseletyze? To have their beliefs 'stroked'? To reinforce their views of the 'godless' and those they consider not to be 'true christians'?

The title of this forum is 'Debating..." So why do they come when debating (which implies a willingness to be challenged and ultimately learn) is the furtherest thing from their mind?

I think a lot of it has to do with the nature of the Internet itself. There are many ways to filter the information that one gets in such a way that one's own beliefs are verified and legitimized. Those others who you mentioned show up on other forums where they are not challenged (I am sure), and in those places have the opportunity to hone and congeal their own personal world views by being validated by others who (surprise) either share most if not all of their views or do not wish to seriously engage them. This was possible before the Internet, of course, but not with such speed and surgical strike accuracy. In this way, each person becomes h/h own personal guru, h/h own ruler of h/h philosophical domain rather quickly, instead of the usual 40 years on the mountain top. This leaves out the important step of creating humility.

Actual debate is one of the special features of this particular forum. Many of you may remember the guy who ran the top-100 list of Christian "debate" sites on the Internet -- demanded that otseng make it a more friendly place for Christians to be, my guess is for just this reason. Haven't heard from him again, have we?