How does God bring us peace?

[arunangelo]

By His sacrifice on the cross God showed us that His love for us is pure, selfless and sacrificial. When we believe in His love we will find complete peace, because the love He expressed for us makes us confident of His help to us in time of trouble. It also gives us consolation to know that He is with us in our suffering because He too went through our suffering, and a feeling of rejection and loneliness. Even when it appears that we are receiving absolutely no help and are in mortal danger, we will still find peace knowing that He already has a place for us in heaven for all eternity. Furthermore, when our spirit is one with Him we will find rest because He alone is the consolation to our spirit (Matthew 11:29). Furthermore, when we trust Him, we will be free of fear; and freedom from fear will make us selfless; and selflessness will bring us peace by freeing us of fear, jealousy, hate and revenge.

[Zzyzx]

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By His sacrifice on the cross God showed us that His love for us is pure, selfless and sacrificial.

Some of the thousands of religions offer a tale of a “god� “sacrificing himself or herself� for humans. Sometimes with a claim that in so doing he “atoned� to himself (or another part of himself) for the “sin� of humans being human.

That makes as much sense as tales of talking donkeys and snakes.

If a “god� “dies� temporarily (knowing it is not a permanent condition), how is that a “sacrifice�?

How could one person’s (or “god’s�) “sacrifice� transfer to other people?

When we believe in His love we will find complete peace, because the love He expressed for us makes us confident of His help to us in time of trouble.

Many who appear or claim to be devout Christians do NOT find “complete peace�. Agreed?

Many devout Christians do not experience any “help� from any “god� when they undergo “time of trouble�.

How can you make those promises if they cannot be shown to be true, if people cannot depend on them being truthful?

It also gives us consolation to know that He is with us in our suffering because He too went through our suffering, and a feeling of rejection and loneliness.

Perhaps those who need “consolation� in times of difficulty are consoled by knowing that someone (even an invisible someone) has also suffered. Many know that consolation is less useful or productive than taking action to put to rest the mater that troubles them (whatever that may require) – INSTEAD of pleading with an invisible “god� for relief.

Even when it appears that we are receiving absolutely no help and are in mortal danger, we will still find peace knowing that He already has a place for us in heaven for all eternity.

Since prayers didn’t work in that case, at least one can die thinking they will go to “heaven� in an “afterlife� if they have “pleased god�. The only unknowns in that scenario are heaven, afterlife and god – but at least believers can die happily.

Furthermore, when our spirit is one with Him we will find rest because He alone is the consolation to our spirit (Matthew 11:29).

It must be comforting for those who believe that the bible is “the word of god� or “inerrant� or “infallible�

Furthermore, when we trust Him, we will be free of fear;

Are you actually claiming that those who trust “god� are FREE of fear? Are you serious?

and freedom from fear will make us selfless;

How does freedom from fear guarantee to make one “selfless�?

How does one account for people who are selfless or appear to act in an selfless manner – but are NOT worshipers of gods?

and selflessness will bring us peace by freeing us of fear, jealousy, hate and revenge.

Is that an idealistic pronouncement or do you actually maintain that those who trust “god� are FREED of fear, jealousy, hate and revenge?

Kindly SHOW that you speak truth (with real world evidence – not bible tales and religious dogma).

It might be prudent to consider that many or most (or all?) readers know that people who claim to be religious (or to “trust god�) STILL EXHIBIT fear, jealousy, hate and revenge. Can you show that you speak truth?

How do you account for the difference between what you claim and the reality in which we live?



Are you aware that this is a DEBATE forum – not a church? Sermons are permitted in Holy Huddle. Kindly review Forum Rules and Guidelines.

[JoeyKnothead]

From the OP:

I was gonna post a point by point reply, but I think it's easier to just point out the OPer doesn't present their case in a section of the forum set up for actual debate. IMO this is yet another example of how religious folks seek to avoid scrutiny of their claims, and will use any methods possible to advance their unproven, unprovable claims.

I challenge arunangelo to actually debate the issues s/he (no slur) seeks to present.

With as much respect as I can, I challenge you to put your claims up for debate, and quit hiding them behind the General Chat subforum.

[Slopeshoulder]

I'd add that the words "God" (subject) "brings" (verb), "peace" (direct object), and "us" (indirect object) together create a grammar that claims propositionally on the part of the OP that there's a person doing something. To be fair, this is orthodox beleif, expressed literally.

I reject the validity of such propositional formulations and insist that to be intellectually coherent and existentially meaningful they need to be restated and reconsidered metaphorically or (preferably) mytho-poetically. So I'd change it to "we find peace in god" where "god" is a word for a bundle of meaning that affirmers of god find to be a source of peace. I realize that statement would be tautological if it didn't also infer some kind of comparative claim (an implied "better than we find peace elsewhere.")

Once can deny that claim too of course, but at least it's a coherent claim, and one would have the benefit of thinking about, trying out, and accepting or rejecting an idea that does not rely upon magical thinking posing as fact from the get go.

If there is a existent personal god who through god's agency brings peace to us, that's a lovely idea that may turn out to be true. But we have no access to the possibility of knowing that, so as Wittgenstein said, this is an example of that "whereof we cannot speak we must remain silent." And certainly not preachy.

[arunangelo]

From the OP:

I was gonna post a point by point reply, but I think it's easier to just point out the OPer doesn't present their case in a section of the forum set up for actual debate. IMO this is yet another example of how religious folks seek to avoid scrutiny of their claims, and will use any methods possible to advance their unproven, unprovable claims.

I challenge arunangelo to actually debate the issues s/he (no slur) seeks to present.

With as much respect as I can, I challenge you to put your claims up for debate, and quit hiding them behind the General Chat subforum.

It is not a claim it is an experience. Taste and see the goodness of the Lord.

[Zzyzx]

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It is not a claim it is an experience. Taste and see the goodness of the Lord.

Many consider the "taste" of invisible, undetectable "gods" to be non-existent or imaginary and the "experience" to be illusion.

Some attempt to convince others to worship "gods" using their own "experience" as though it was evidence.

[JoeyKnothead]

It is not a claim it is an experience. Taste and see the goodness of the Lord.

I had sex with Angelina Jolie.

Why should I be believed?

[arunangelo]

It is not a claim it is an experience. Taste and see the goodness of the Lord.

I had sex with Angelina Jolie.

Why should I be believed?

Each one has a choice to believe or not believe

[Zzyzx]

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It is not a claim it is an experience. Taste and see the goodness of the Lord.

I had sex with Angelina Jolie.

Why should I be believed?

Each one has a choice to believe or not believe

The question was WHY should he be believed. How does one go about deciding whether to believe the claim or not? Is the credibility of the source and the claim considered, for instance? Is information other than the claim itself considered?

Would one be gullible to accept Joey's claim as truthful without any information other than his claim itself?

Do you believe him?