The Muslim Stance

[JoeyKnothead]

Its my understanding of Islam that it wants to 'take over' the world, making Islam the default religion for all. I ask these questions in a sincere effort to seek the truth, and I ask in an honest effort to clear the air.

Please forgive me if I'm in error, and I can't quote the Koran, I'm trying to get some clarification.

1- Does Islam seek to impose its brand of religion on the world?
2- Does Islam allow others to worship as they please, with no restrictions, taxes, or any other impediments?
3- Leave Israel out. Do NOT include it in this thread. Could Islam allow Jewish people to form their own communities? Again, we will NOT discuss Israel What I'm asking is could Islam accept a Jewish community to exist outside of any place that Islam considers holy?

4- I understand how delicate the Israel issue is, and I do NOT want to stir that nest up in this thread. If anyone wishes to discuss Israel start a different thread.

[TrueReligion]

Dats what im saying, the link have wrong hadith, the hadith if you are saying is true, then y not putting it here with reference and everything? its making more doubts towards you as you are not putting the correct format forthe debate:)

If you have a problem with a specific hadith please list it and we can discuss it.

You provide the hadith, you know which 1 im talking about. The hadith where as per you Aisha said her marriage was forced and she got mental and physical problem.

Please refer to that thread for an answer.

Means you dont have answer, ok, so this topic is closed I guess, see you on other thread.
Thanks

[van]

9:29 - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." Suras 9 and 5 are the last "revelations" that Muhammad handed down.

9:5 "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them..." Prayer and charity are among the Five Pillars of Islam, as salat and zakat. See below.

9:11 - (Continued from above) "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion" This confirms that Muhammad is speaking of conversion to Islam.

2:193 - "And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion be only for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers." The key phrase is to fight until "religion be only for Allah."

From the Hadith:

Sahih Muslim (1:33) The Messenger of Allah said: "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah..." The last part is the Shahada, or profession of faith in Islam.

Sahih Muslim (19:4294) - "When you meet your enemies who are polytheists [Christians...], invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them ... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them"

Bukhari (8:387) - "Allah's Apostle said, 'I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah.'"

Bukhari (53:392) - "While we were in the Mosque, the Prophet came out and said, "Let us go to the Jews" We went out till we reached Bait-ul-Midras. He said to them, "If you embrace Islam, you will be safe. You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to expel you from this land. So, if anyone amongst you owns some property, he is permitted to sell it, otherwise you should know that the Earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle."

Bukhari (2:24) - "Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."

Bukhari (60:40) - "...:And fight them till there is no more affliction (i.e. no more worshiping of others along with Allah)." 'Affliction' of Muslims is explicitly defined here being a condition in which others worship a different god other than Allah. Muslims are commanded to use violence to 'rectify' the situation.

Bukhari (59:643) - "Testify that none has the right to be worshipped except Allah, or else I will chop off your neck!" Words of a military leader that Muhammad sent on an expedition with the mission of destroying a local religion in Yemen.

Ibn Ishaq 959 - Then the apostle sent Khalid bin Walid… to the Banu al-Harith and ordered him to invite them to Islam three days before he attacked them. If they accepted then he was to accept it from them, and if they declined he was to fight them. So Khalid set out and came to them, and sent out riders in all directions inviting the people to Islam, saying, “If you accept Islam you will be safe.� So the men accepted Islam as they were invited. The text goes on to say that Khalid taught the al-Harith about Islam after their "conversion," proving that it was based on fear of slaughter rather than a free and intelligent decision.

[TrueReligion]

9:29 - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." Suras 9 and 5 are the last "revelations" that Muhammad handed down.

9:5 "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them..." Prayer and charity are among the Five Pillars of Islam, as salat and zakat. See below.

9:11 - (Continued from above) "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion" This confirms that Muhammad is speaking of conversion to Islam.

2:193 - "And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion be only for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers." The key phrase is to fight until "religion be only for Allah."

From the Hadith:

Sahih Muslim (1:33) The Messenger of Allah said: "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah..." The last part is the Shahada, or profession of faith in Islam.

Sahih Muslim (19:4294) - "When you meet your enemies who are polytheists [Christians...], invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them ... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them"

Bukhari (8:387) - "Allah's Apostle said, 'I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah.'"

Bukhari (53:392) - "While we were in the Mosque, the Prophet came out and said, "Let us go to the Jews" We went out till we reached Bait-ul-Midras. He said to them, "If you embrace Islam, you will be safe. You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to expel you from this land. So, if anyone amongst you owns some property, he is permitted to sell it, otherwise you should know that the Earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle."

Bukhari (2:24) - "Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."

Bukhari (60:40) - "...:And fight them till there is no more affliction (i.e. no more worshiping of others along with Allah)." 'Affliction' of Muslims is explicitly defined here being a condition in which others worship a different god other than Allah. Muslims are commanded to use violence to 'rectify' the situation.

Bukhari (59:643) - "Testify that none has the right to be worshipped except Allah, or else I will chop off your neck!" Words of a military leader that Muhammad sent on an expedition with the mission of destroying a local religion in Yemen.

Ibn Ishaq 959 - Then the apostle sent Khalid bin Walid… to the Banu al-Harith and ordered him to invite them to Islam three days before he attacked them. If they accepted then he was to accept it from them, and if they declined he was to fight them. So Khalid set out and came to them, and sent out riders in all directions inviting the people to Islam, saying, “If you accept Islam you will be safe.� So the men accepted Islam as they were invited. The text goes on to say that Khalid taught the al-Harith about Islam after their "conversion," proving that it was based on fear of slaughter rather than a free and intelligent decision.

Already its replied earlier to you Van, that you posted the verses out of context, and missed the part which explains in real.

I wont go all through what you have writen, as its all out of context, just will give the real verse of Quran here. so your false claim can be exposed .

The chapter you are refering of Quran was revealed because of 1 Peace Treaty dont between Pagans of Mecca and muslims, and later on the Pagans broke the treaty, and killed some muslims who went to ask the reason for breaking the treaty by Pagans.

Now I will list from verse 1 till verse 29, so every1 will know wats the truth.

A declaration of immunity from Allah and His Messenger is hereby made to those of
the pagans with whom you have made a treaty:[1] "You have four months to go
around in the land unmolested; but you should know that you cannot frustrate the will
of Allah, and that Allah will humiliate the unbelievers."[2] This is a public proclamation
from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the Great Hajj (Pilgrimage)
that Allah and His Messenger do hereby dissolve treaty obligations with the pagans.
Therefore, if you repent, it will be better for you but if you turn away, then you should
know that you cannot frustrate the Will of Allah. O Prophet, proclaim a painful
punishment to those who are unbelievers.[3] Except (this proclamation does not
apply to) those pagans who honored their treaties with you in every detail and aided
none against you. So fulfill your treaties with them to the end of their term; for Allah
loves the righteous.[4] When the forbidden months (10,11,12 & 1 of the Islamic
calendar) are over, then fight the pagans wherever you find them, seize them,
besiege them, and lie in ambush for them in every stratagem of war, but if they
repent, establish Salah and pay Zakah, then let them go their way: surely Allah is
Forgiving, Merciful.[5] If anyone from the pagans ask you for asylum, grant it to him
so that he may hear the Word of Allah, and then escort him to his place of safety: this
should be done because these people do not know the truth.[6] 9:[1-6]

How can there be a treaty with the pagans on the part of Allah and His Messenger -
except for those with whom you ratified a treaty at the Masjid-al-Haram? So long as
they honor it, you also honor: for Allah loves the righteous.[7] How can you trust
them? If they prevail against you, they respect neither treaty nor ties of relationship.
They just flatter you with their tongues, but their hearts reject you, and most of them
are transgressors.[8] They have sold the revelations of Allah for paltry worldly gain
and they have hindered others from His way; indeed evil are the deeds that they
have done.[9] They neither honor the ties of relationship nor observe the obligations
of treaties with the believers; it is they who are the transgressors.[10] However, if
they repent, establish Salah and pay Zakah, then they shall be your brethren in Deen
(faith and way of life based on Divine guidance): thus do We spell out Our revelations
for people of understanding.[11] 9:[7-11]
But if they violate their treaty once they have sworn it and insult your Deen, then fight
with the ringleaders of the unbelief - for their oaths are nothing to them - so that they
may be stopped.[12] Will you not fight against those people who have broken their
oaths, conspired to expel the Messenger and were the first to attack you? Do you
fear them? Nay, it is Allah Who is more deserving of your fear, if you are true
believers.[13] Fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands and humiliate them.
He will grant you victory over them and soothe the hearts of a believing people.[14]
He will take away all rancor from their hearts. Allah shows mercy to whom He
pleases, and Allah is All-Knowledgeable, All-Wise.[15] Do you think that you will be
left alone (without trial)? While Allah has not yet demonstrated which of you had
exerted your utmost struggle (in the path of Allah) and did not take any intimate
friends other than Allah, His Messenger and the believers? Allah is well aware of all
your actions.[16] 9:[12-16]

It is not for the pagans to maintain the mosques of Allah while they bear witness
against themselves about their unbelief. It is they whose deeds are in vain and in the
hellfire shall they live forever.[17] The mosques of Allah should be maintained by
those who believe in Allah and the Last Day, establish Salah (prayers), and pay
Zakah (poor due) and fear none except Allah. It is they who are expected to follow
the true guidance.[18] 9:[17-18]
Have you made those who provide water to the pilgrims and maintain the Masjid-al-
Haram equal to those who believe in Allah, the Last Day and make Jihad? They are
not equal in the sight of Allah, and Allah does not guide the wrongdoers.[19] Those
who believe, leave their homes (migrate), and make Jihad with their wealth and
persons in the cause of Allah, have higher rank in the sight of Allah. It is they who will
be truly successful.[20] Their Lord gives them good news of His mercy, His good
pleasure, and paradise with everlasting bliss.[21] They will live therein forever. Surely
it is Allah with Whom is the mighty reward.[22] 9:[19-22]
O believers! Do not take your fathers and your brothers as your friends if they prefer
Kufr (unbelief) over Iman (belief); for those who turn away from this commandment
shall be considered wrongdoers.[23] O Prophet, tell them: If your fathers, your sons,
your brothers, your spouses, your relatives, the wealth that you have acquired, the
business in which you fear a loss, and the homes which you like are dearer to you
than Allah, His Messenger, and making Jihad (struggle) in His Way, then wait until
Allah brings about His decision. Allah does not guide the transgressors.[24] 9:[23-24]
SECTION: 4
Allah has indeed helped you in many battlefields and (recently) on the day of Hunain:
when you were proud of your great numbers (the Muslim army was 12,000 strong
and the unbelievers were only 4,000), but the numbers availed you nothing. The
earth, with all its vastness, seemed to close in upon you, and you turned your backs
and fled.[25] But Allah sent down His sakeenah (peace and tranquility) upon His
Messenger and the believers and sent down to your aid those forces which you could
not see, and punished the unbelievers. Thus was the recompense for the
unbelievers.[26] Then after that, you also witnessed that Allah guided to repent some
of them whom He wanted, for Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.[27]
9:[25-27]
O believers! Know that pagans are unclean; therefore, do not let them come near the
Masjid-al-Haram after this year's pilgrimage. If you fear poverty, soon Allah - if He so
wills - will enrich you out of His bounty. Allah is All-Knowledgeable, All-Wise.[28]
Fight those people of the Book (Jews and Christians) who do not believe in Allah and
the Last Day, do not refrain from what has been prohibited by Allah and His
Messenger and do not embrace the religion of truth (Al-Islam), until they pay Jizya
(protection tax) with their own hands and feel themselves subdued.[29] 9:[28-29]
SECTION: 5
The Jews say: "Uzair (Azra) is the son of Allah," and the Christians say: " Messiah
(Christ) is the son of Allah." That is what they say with their mouths, imitating the
sayings of the former unbelievers. May Allah destroy them! How perverted they
are![30] They (Jews and Christians) have taken their rabbis and priests to be their
Lords beside Allah and so they did with Messiah (Jesus), the son of Mary, although
they were commanded to worship none but One Ilah (Allah); besides Whom there is
none worthy of worship. Exalted be He above those whom they associate with
Him.[31] They desire to extinguish the light of Allah with their mouths but Allah seeks
to perfect His light even though the disbelievers may dislike it.[32] It is He Who has
sent His Messenger with guidance and true Deen (faith) to make it prevail over all
other deens (faiths) even though the pagans may hate it.[33] 9:[30-33]

This is what is in real, full context, generaly its old and only habit of christians, they point out of context this verse of Quran, but its always shown to them the reaity, and they only face defeat as always at the end:)

But what about the errors on Bible? you never seem to defend them. Which clearly means that Bible is corrupted by church people, and they can never give any answer to questions asked by muslims and other non-christians about Bible and Christian faith.

[van]

Why do so many Muslims take these verses out of context?

Even imams take these verses out of context.

But what about the errors on Bible? you never seem to defend them. Which clearly means that Bible is corrupted by church people, and they can never give any answer to questions asked by muslims and other non-christians about Bible and Christian faith.

What you are saying makes not sense why would I defend errors?

I don't need to defend the Holy Bible there are many websites that expalin what seem like contradiction is actually a fuller message and the errors that most likely are simply scribes errors in spellings.

There is no cover up concerning the Bible the way there has been with the Quran.

So back to the Quran why so many people take these verses out of context and/or misunderstand the Quran? Is the Quran vague? So vague that it needs hadith and explaination to understand what it is trying to say?

[TrueReligion]

Why do so many Muslims take these verses out of context?

Even imams take these verses out of context.

Which muslim took verse out of context? I put here all complete verses. You infact showed the verses out of context,
example you showed here verse 9:5, 9:9, 9:25, but didnt showed wats before and after that, is this a fair debate you do? ?

But what about the errors on Bible? you never seem to defend them. Which clearly means that Bible is corrupted by church people, and they can never give any answer to questions asked by muslims and other non-christians about Bible and Christian faith.

What you are saying makes not sense why would I defend errors?

I don't need to defend the Holy Bible there are many websites that expalin what seem like contradiction is actually a fuller message and the errors that most likely are simply scribes errors in spellings.

There is no cover up concerning the Bible the way there has been with the Quran.

So back to the Quran why so many people take these verses out of context and/or misunderstand the Quran? Is the Quran vague? So vague that it needs hadith and explaination to understand what it is trying to say?

If you thinik that no contradiction and error in Bible, thn just answer this simple contradiction and error.

1). When did David bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem? Before defeating the Philistines or after?

After (2 Samuel 5 and 6)
Before (I Chronicles 13 and 14)

For your Quran comment, I told already that you have to know the history when any chapter was revealed, chapter 9 as I mentioned was revealed when the arab pagans break the peace treaty with muslims, and ofcourse fight for justice is allowed by God and is mentioned in both OT n NT in Bible.
Now answer the contradiction of Bible

[van]

http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=17136&size=A

A policy of “ethnic cleansing� against Christians under way in Mosul, Mgr Sako says
The archbishop of Kirkuk says security measures will be strengthened during Christmas for fear of new attacks. Two attacks are carried out in Mosul yesterday; two churches are hit, one baby girl is dead and 40 people are wounded. Source tells AsiaNews that the Christian community is “destined to die� in the city.

Kirkuk (AsiaNews) – A policy of “ethnic and religious cleansing� is underway in Mosul; in fact, it has worsened as Christmas approaches, Mgr Louis Sako told AsiaNews. For the archbishop of Kirkuk, this means that “security measures must be strengthened or the holiday season�. Meanwhile, tensions and fear are palpable in the city, made worse by a new attack against two places of worship, killing one person and wounding 40 more. A Christian source, anonymous for security reasons, said that the “community is destined to die�.
In the late morning, a car bomb exploded in front of the Church of the Annunciation in the al- Mohandiseen neighbourhood, damaging walls and windows. The attackers also threw grenades against the nearby Christian school, killing a baby girl and injuring 40 more people, including five high school kids. Saad Younes, father of the 8-day-old child, said that the blast occurred when his daughter and sister-in-law were leaving the nearby hospital.

A second attack targeted the Syro-Catholic Church of the Immaculate in al-Shifaa, a neighbourhood in northern Mosul. An explosive device went off in the street in front of the building’s gate. No one was killed or injured.

Yesterday’s attacks are the latest episodes in a series of violence against Christian places of worship. On 26 November, terrorists razed to the ground the Church of Saint Ephrem and the Mother House of the Dominican Sisters of Saint Catherine. A source told AsiaNews that most nuns left; only a few have remained but “are afraid of going out�.

Such attacks are a “warning� for Christians to leave en masse. Many “families have fled north, into Kurdistan, but are jobless and have no hope for the future. The Christian community is destined to die,� the source said.

Mgr Louis Sako shares this concern. For the archbishop of Kirkuk, “ethnic and religious cleansing� is underway in Mosul. The central government and parties are concerned only about the elections, scheduled for 7 March 2010, especially about “sharing the oil�.

The city’s political situation is complex. Arabs control local power; Kurds do not participate in the municipal council; and there is a strong presence of fundamentalist groups and members of Saddam Hussein’s old regime.

“The situation is very tense,� Mgr Sako said. “Just last week to Christian brothers were killed and two more were abducted. Where was the local government? And the Central government? Where are the representatives of the ruling parties?� the prelate asked.

Nevertheless, he said he hopes to see the Christian community achieve greater cohesion within to build a “strong power base� that can reject violence.

For the prelate, one possible response is for “Churches and Christian parties to make a strong statement, reiterating their steadfastness, and their commitment to Iraq, peace and coexistence between ethnic groups and religions. [. . .] To destroy this mosaic is to destroy Iraq,� he said. (DS)

[van]

http://www.worthynews.com/7099-breaking ... police-say

BREAKING NEWS: Pakistan Muslim Employers Poison And Kill Christians Police Say
By Jawad Mazhar Special Correspondent BosNewsLife reporting from Pakistan

GUJRANWALA, PAKISTAN (BosNewsLife)-- A Christian sanitation worker was struggling for his life Wednesday, December 16, in a hospital of Pakistan's Punjab province after two Christian co-workers already died because Muslim employers apparently poisoned them, police and family confirmed.

The father of the three workers, Yousaf Masih, said the incident happened Monday, December 14, in a banquet and wedding hall where his sons demanded wages owed to them.

Masih said the Muslim managers of the facility were angry that Christians dared to ask for payment. "My sons were apparently forced to consume some kind of poisoned drink, or a drug...They were left there to die,� he said, adding that their bosses also made abusive remarks about Christianity.

Imran Masih, 29, and Irfan Masih, 25, died on the spot at the 'Ferozewala Pul Banquet & Marriage Hall'n while their brother 23-year-old Aakash Masih was eventually rushed to hospital by family members, Masih said. “The administration of the banquet and wedding hall did not call a hospital or take them to a hospital –instead they called us after the death of two of our loved ones.�

Aakash Masih was reportedly still in "critical condition" at the Intensive Care Unit of Civil Hospital Gujranwala in Punjab Province. The human remains of the two other brothers were taken for autopsy to the hospital, Masih said, as part of an apparent police investigation.

Police officials said they were still searching for the main suspects who they identified as Imtiyas Warriach, owner of the Ferozewala Pul Banquet & Marriage Hall, and hall manager Abid Virk. Both officials will be charged with "murder and deception, police said.

There have been several attacks against Christian sanitation workers across Pakistan a predominantly Muslim nation. Minority Christians, who complain off discrimination, often work in difficult circumstances, according to church groups and rights organizations.

[TrueReligion]

http://www.worthynews.com/7099-breaking ... police-say

BREAKING NEWS: Pakistan Muslim Employers Poison And Kill Christians Police Say
By Jawad Mazhar Special Correspondent BosNewsLife reporting from Pakistan

GUJRANWALA, PAKISTAN (BosNewsLife)-- A Christian sanitation worker was struggling for his life Wednesday, December 16, in a hospital of Pakistan's Punjab province after two Christian co-workers already died because Muslim employers apparently poisoned them, police and family confirmed.

The father of the three workers, Yousaf Masih, said the incident happened Monday, December 14, in a banquet and wedding hall where his sons demanded wages owed to them.

Masih said the Muslim managers of the facility were angry that Christians dared to ask for payment. "My sons were apparently forced to consume some kind of poisoned drink, or a drug...They were left there to die,� he said, adding that their bosses also made abusive remarks about Christianity.

Imran Masih, 29, and Irfan Masih, 25, died on the spot at the 'Ferozewala Pul Banquet & Marriage Hall'n while their brother 23-year-old Aakash Masih was eventually rushed to hospital by family members, Masih said. “The administration of the banquet and wedding hall did not call a hospital or take them to a hospital –instead they called us after the death of two of our loved ones.�

Aakash Masih was reportedly still in "critical condition" at the Intensive Care Unit of Civil Hospital Gujranwala in Punjab Province. The human remains of the two other brothers were taken for autopsy to the hospital, Masih said, as part of an apparent police investigation.

Police officials said they were still searching for the main suspects who they identified as Imtiyas Warriach, owner of the Ferozewala Pul Banquet & Marriage Hall, and hall manager Abid Virk. Both officials will be charged with "murder and deception, police said.

There have been several attacks against Christian sanitation workers across Pakistan a predominantly Muslim nation. Minority Christians, who complain off discrimination, often work in difficult circumstances, according to church groups and rights organizations.

So are Christians:)

Christian Right's Emerging Deadly Worldview: Kill Muslims to Purify the Earth

By Chris Hedges, Truthdig. Posted February 12, 2008.


Christian extremists are preaching a war against tolerance to target and persecute all Muslims, including the 6 million who live in the U.S.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/200 ... -32.0.html

Weblog: Nigerian Christians Attack Muslims, Kill Dozens

Reports estimate that between 67 and 300 are dead after Christian ethnic Taroks attacked Muslim cattle-herders in the town of Yelwa in central Nigeria's Plateau State. The Tarok ethnic group used machine guns mounted on jeeps, along with rifles and machetes, to attack the Muslim community. Possibly three mosques were damaged and at least 67 people have been buried, while hundreds more have fled or disappeared. Just last week, the Christian Tarok were attacked by the Muslim Hausa in the region.

In the most recent attack, the Associated Press reports that more that 100 were killed and 1,000 homes destroyed. "It will take time to account for the exact number of dead and missing. It's mass murder, because machine guns were used, not machetes," Justice Abdulkadir Orire, secretary general of the Jama'atu Nasril Islam, told Agence France-Presse.

Orire told Reuters that the attack had been planned and received the help of local officials. "Police stationed in Yelwa had been withdrawn four days before the attack, despite complaints from local Muslims that they were surrounded by Taroks and tensions were rising." Orire said. "It seems the governor is supporting the move. We heard that the government said non-indigenes should move out of the area. That is very bad. He should look after everyone in the state and not just his own tribe."

President Olusegun Obasanjo sent as many as 600 riot police to the area to prevent more attacks. According to Reuters, "Yelwa has already witnessed one of the most horrific massacres of the conflict, when 48 Christians were killed by Fulani militia in a church that was later burned in February.

"The last three months have seen the bloodiest fighting in the region since the state capital, Jos, was torn apart by ethnic violence in 2001 that killed 1,000 people."

Religious tensions run high in the country. The northern Nigerian state of Zamfara introduced a stricter set of Shari'ah laws last week, saying that all "unauthorized" places of worship will be shut down. The governor, Ahmed Sani, "ordered the destruction of all Christian churches and non-Islamic places of worship," according to the Dallas Morning News.

[TrueReligion]

http://www.worthynews.com/7099-breaking ... police-say

BREAKING NEWS: Pakistan Muslim Employers Poison And Kill Christians Police Say
By Jawad Mazhar Special Correspondent BosNewsLife reporting from Pakistan

GUJRANWALA, PAKISTAN (BosNewsLife)-- A Christian sanitation worker was struggling for his life Wednesday, December 16, in a hospital of Pakistan's Punjab province after two Christian co-workers already died because Muslim employers apparently poisoned them, police and family confirmed.

The father of the three workers, Yousaf Masih, said the incident happened Monday, December 14, in a banquet and wedding hall where his sons demanded wages owed to them.


Christians killing even Hindus and people of other religions.

Tribal Christians kill Hindu

Posted January 26, 2004
The Asian Age (Sunday, January 18, 2004)
Front page.
By Our Correspondent





The Asian Age (Sunday, January 18, 2004)
Front page.
No link available

Baroda, Jan. 17: One Vishwa Hindu Parishad member died and six injured after a strong mob of Christians attacked them at Alirajpur village of Bhabhara taluka of Jhabua district in Madhya Pradesh late on Friday night.

About 50 members of the Bharatiya Janata Party, Vishwa Hindu Parishad and Bajrang Dal were heading towards Aamkhud village to protest against killing of a nine -year- old Hindu girl by some Christians at a missionary school in the village.

She was allegedly molested in the wee hours of January 11 before being killed and her dead body was found at the missionary school premises.

The police investigation had pointed to the involvement of some Christian youths of the village that incensed local Hindus to protest. The local Hindu organisations at Jhabua had called for a bandh on January 12 and the situation in the area became tense. What added to the tension was a disciple of Hindu spiritual leader Asharambapu, Shri Krishna Didi had gone to the village for religious discourse. The local Christian population protested against the programme causing panic.

However, when the BJP, VHP and Bajrang Dal members from Jhabua were heading to Aamkhud village on Friday night, they were waylaid by a strong mob of Christian tribals of Alirajpur village.

The miscreants pelted stones and shot arrows at the vehicles and later set the vehicles ablaze. A VHP member Arjunpal Gokul 23, died on the spot and at least eight persons sustained injuries. Six of the injured were shifted to a private hospital in Dahod. The situation, however, remained peaceful on Saturday.

http://www.christianaggression.org/item ... 1075100525
Masih said the Muslim managers of the facility were angry that Christians dared to ask for payment. "My sons were apparently forced to consume some kind of poisoned drink, or a drug...They were left there to die,� he said, adding that their bosses also made abusive remarks about Christianity.

Imran Masih, 29, and Irfan Masih, 25, died on the spot at the 'Ferozewala Pul Banquet & Marriage Hall'n while their brother 23-year-old Aakash Masih was eventually rushed to hospital by family members, Masih said. “The administration of the banquet and wedding hall did not call a hospital or take them to a hospital –instead they called us after the death of two of our loved ones.�

Aakash Masih was reportedly still in "critical condition" at the Intensive Care Unit of Civil Hospital Gujranwala in Punjab Province. The human remains of the two other brothers were taken for autopsy to the hospital, Masih said, as part of an apparent police investigation.

Police officials said they were still searching for the main suspects who they identified as Imtiyas Warriach, owner of the Ferozewala Pul Banquet & Marriage Hall, and hall manager Abid Virk. Both officials will be charged with "murder and deception, police said.

There have been several attacks against Christian sanitation workers across Pakistan a predominantly Muslim nation. Minority Christians, who complain off discrimination, often work in difficult circumstances, according to church groups and rights organizations.

[TrueReligion]

http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=17136&size=A

A policy of “ethnic cleansing� against Christians under way in Mosul, Mgr Sako says
The archbishop of Kirkuk says security measures will be strengthened during Christmas for fear of new attacks. Two attacks are carried out in Mosul yesterday; two churches are hit, one baby girl is dead and 40 people are wounded. Source tells AsiaNews that the Christian community is “destined to die� in the city.

Kirkuk (AsiaNews) – A policy of “ethnic and religious cleansing� is underway in Mosul; in fact, it has worsened as Christmas approaches, Mgr Louis Sako told AsiaNews. For the archbishop of Kirkuk, this means that “security measures must be strengthened or the holiday season�. Meanwhile, tensions and fear are palpable in the city, made worse by a new attack against two places of worship, killing one person and wounding 40 more. A Christian source, anonymous for security reasons, said that the “community is destined to die�.
In the late morning, a car bomb exploded in front of the Church of the Annunciation in the al- Mohandiseen neighbourhood, damaging walls and windows. The attackers also threw grenades against the nearby Christian school, killing a baby girl and injuring 40 more people, including five high school kids. Saad Younes, father of the 8-day-old child, said that the blast occurred when his daughter and sister-in-law were leaving the nearby hospital.

A second attack targeted the Syro-Catholic Church of the Immaculate in al-Shifaa, a neighbourhood in northern Mosul. An explosive device went off in the street in front of the building’s gate. No one was killed or injured.

Yesterday’s attacks are the latest episodes in a series of violence against Christian places of worship. On 26 November, terrorists razed to the ground the Church of Saint Ephrem and the Mother House of the Dominican Sisters of Saint Catherine. A source told AsiaNews that most nuns left; only a few have remained but “are afraid of going out�.

Such attacks are a “warning� for Christians to leave en masse. Many “families have fled north, into Kurdistan, but are jobless and have no hope for the future. The Christian community is destined to die,� the source said.

Mgr Louis Sako shares this concern. For the archbishop of Kirkuk, “ethnic and religious cleansing� is underway in Mosul. The central government and parties are concerned only about the elections, scheduled for 7 March 2010, especially about “sharing the oil�.

The city’s political situation is complex. Arabs control local power; Kurds do not participate in the municipal council; and there is a strong presence of fundamentalist groups and members of Saddam Hussein’s old regime.

“The situation is very tense,� Mgr Sako said. “Just last week to Christian brothers were killed and two more were abducted. Where was the local government? And the Central government? Where are the representatives of the ruling parties?� the prelate asked.

Nevertheless, he said he hopes to see the Christian community achieve greater cohesion within to build a “strong power base� that can reject violence.

For the prelate, one possible response is for “Churches and Christian parties to make a strong statement, reiterating their steadfastness, and their commitment to Iraq, peace and coexistence between ethnic groups and religions. [. . .] To destroy this mosaic is to destroy Iraq,� he said. (DS)

Most violant faith, -> Christians

When Christians Killed Each Other Over Religion in Public Schools By Rob Boston
Originally published in Liberty: A Magazine For Religious Liberty May/June 1997 edition, this article was located in the Liberty archives at www.libertymagazine.org/html/riots.html. Since that link has now expired, we have received permission from the author to re-publish it here.



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On a warm spring day more than 150 years ago George Schiffler died on a street in Philadelphia. Though history didn't record much about the 18-year-old, except that he was a "leather worker," it does tell a great deal about the circumstances surrounding his death. Young Schiffler was the first to die as rampaging mobs of Roman Catholics and Protestants shot, clubbed, and otherwise attacked one another in what was known as the "Philadelphia Bible Riots."

Interestingly enough, the issue that incited the violence remains controversial even today, and that is religion in public schools.

In fact, the parallels between the rhetoric of nineteenth-century America's Protestant majority and today's Religious Right are startling. As Roman Catholics and Protestants battled more than a century ago over prayer and Bible reading in public schools, Protestants relied on the same arguments uttered by modern-day TV preachers: Protestant practices in public schools were "traditional"; those who don't like the exercises could get up and leave the room; a little religion never hurt anyone; and finally, Protestants were the majority and should have the right to do whatever they wanted.

Like the modern Religious Right, ultraconservative Protestant leaders of the nineteenth century insisted the United States was a "Christian nation." Only one catch: by "Christian" they really meant "Protestant."

Statistically at least, the view was correct. Although Roman Catholics had lived in the country since the Colonial period, they were few in number and politically impotent. A great wave of immigration from Ireland in the 1830's and 1840's threatened to change that. Most of the Irish were Catholics fleeing the potato famine, and their arrival on these shores in large numbers caused near panic among the Protestant majority.

Catholics were considered a threat; they resisted assimilation and were accused of owing their loyalty to a foreign potentate - the Roman pope. Their religion was widely misunderstood, and rumors circulated. Priests were accused of sexual depravity. Priests and nuns, it was said, had engaged in illicit affairs and killed the offspring, burying them beneath the floors of convents. As bizarre as these stories sound today, they were taken seriously by many Americans in the 1840's.

http://candst.tripod.com/boston3.htm