Will babies who have died automatically be saved?

Exploring the details of Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Celsus
Apprentice
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:22 am
Location: Luxembourg

Will babies who have died automatically be saved?

Post #1

Post by Celsus »

Will babies who have died automatically be saved, go to Heaven and get eternal life?

transient
Newbie
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:16 pm

Post #11

Post by transient »

Celsus wrote:
transient wrote:
Celsus wrote:So Christians actually don't have a common view/doctrine on this?
Lookup up "Limbo of Infants" and while you're at it, baptism of desire and baptism of blood.

The Roman Catholic church has a number of ways to satisfy grieving parents and lovers when they know that whomever the knew has died without being in a state of grace.
But that's only the Catholics and it's not based on the Bible, right?
Quite right. I believe it's rather uniformly decided that the Bible has nothing to say on the matter. There's also some controversy over those born and died before Christ. They're in the same situation, I believe.

You can get views from other prominent Christian sects with a quick search or two.

User avatar
McCulloch
Site Supporter
Posts: 24063
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 9:10 pm
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Been thanked: 3 times

Post #12

Post by McCulloch »

McCulloch wrote:The Bible is pretty silent on this topic. Go ahead and make up any answer that is consistent with the rest of your theology and you're good to go.
Metatron wrote:I'm under the impression that some variations of Christianity believe that the baby has to be slam dunked in a pool of water before the baby is "safe".
They do not get such a teaching from the Bible.
Metatron wrote:Perhaps someone with a better understanding of baptism than me can clarify this.
Samwise wrote:Paul wrote "I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died." Romans 7:9 ESV. The only time this could have been true of Paul would be when he was a baby and didn't yet know the difference between right and wrong. We are born with a tendency to do evil but we can't actually sin until we are mature enough to know what we should do, so anyone who dies during this time isn't guilty of sin. Jesus said that we must be converted and become like little children in order to enter the kingdom of heaven and this could not be true unless little children were innocent.
Some Christian groups teach that babies must be baptized, but the Bible teaches that baptism is the way those who have repented and been forgiven publicly declare that they are now followers of Christ.
This is my understanding of what the Bible teaches about who is the proper subject of baptism. I am not sure that you can extend Jesus' remark that you must become as little children to mean that children are without sin.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

User avatar
InTheFlesh
Guru
Posts: 1478
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:54 pm

Post #13

Post by InTheFlesh »

Celsus wrote:
InTheFlesh wrote:If a baby is not chosen,
age of death matters not.
Age has nothing to do with seed type.
Chosen by whom, when and on what criteria?
Haven't you heard about the invisible man in the sky? :-s

User avatar
Celsus
Apprentice
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:22 am
Location: Luxembourg

Post #14

Post by Celsus »

InTheFlesh wrote:
Celsus wrote:
InTheFlesh wrote:If a baby is not chosen,
age of death matters not.
Age has nothing to do with seed type.
Chosen by whom, when and on what criteria?
Haven't you heard about the invisible man in the sky? :-s
I have. But when does he choose the babies and on which criteria?

Heterodoxus
Scholar
Posts: 397
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:14 pm
Location: facebook.com/Heterodoxus
Contact:

Post #15

Post by Heterodoxus »

Saved? Saved from what? Babies don't know nuttin' except gimme, gimme, gimme :anger:

IMO, a deceased baby has been saved from a life on this spinning rock.
[center]"That upon which you set your heart and put your trust is properly your god."[/center]
[right]~Martin Luther, Large Catechism 1.1-3.
[/right]

User avatar
McCulloch
Site Supporter
Posts: 24063
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 9:10 pm
Location: Toronto, ON, CA
Been thanked: 3 times

Post #16

Post by McCulloch »

InTheFlesh wrote:
Celsus wrote:
InTheFlesh wrote:If a baby is not chosen,
age of death matters not.
Age has nothing to do with seed type.
Chosen by whom, when and on what criteria?
Haven't you heard about the invisible man in the sky? :-s
Romans 9:13-15 wrote:Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED."

What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be!

For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION."
See? God chooses whom he chooses arbitrarily before they are born.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

User avatar
Celsus
Apprentice
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:22 am
Location: Luxembourg

Post #17

Post by Celsus »

McCulloch wrote:
InTheFlesh wrote:
Celsus wrote:
InTheFlesh wrote:If a baby is not chosen,
age of death matters not.
Age has nothing to do with seed type.
Chosen by whom, when and on what criteria?
Haven't you heard about the invisible man in the sky? :-s
Romans 9:13-15 wrote:Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED."

What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be!

For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION."
See? God chooses whom he chooses arbitrarily before they are born.
Ok, so we know know the WHEN. The only element missing is the WHY (or the criteria of selection) then. Any ideas?

Gnosis
Newbie
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:00 pm

I have the answer

Post #18

Post by Gnosis »

I have your answer for babies read 2 Samuel 12:19-24 and you will see how King David rejoiced when his baby died and mark 10:14....

But when Yahshua saw it, he was much displeased and said unto them allow the CHILDREN to come unto me and forbid not; for OF SUCH IS THE KINGDOM OF ELOHIM

SpiritQuickens
Apprentice
Posts: 183
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:29 pm
Location: Lakeland, Florida

Post #19

Post by SpiritQuickens »

Celsus wrote:
McCulloch wrote:
InTheFlesh wrote:
Celsus wrote:
InTheFlesh wrote:If a baby is not chosen,
age of death matters not.
Age has nothing to do with seed type.
Chosen by whom, when and on what criteria?
Haven't you heard about the invisible man in the sky? :-s
Romans 9:13-15 wrote:Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED."

What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be!

For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION."
See? God chooses whom he chooses arbitrarily before they are born.
Ok, so we know know the WHEN. The only element missing is the WHY (or the criteria of selection) then. Any ideas?
The answer is found in that same chapter.

"So then He has mercy on whomever He wills, and He hardens whomever He wills."-Romans 9:18.

It's going to seem arbitrary to us, but the secret things belong to God (Deut. 29:29).

"Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded."-Romans 3:27. It's certainly not based on anything in us, or we'd have reason to boast. It's based on God's inscrutable decree, which He does not reveal to us.

SpiritQuickens
Apprentice
Posts: 183
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:29 pm
Location: Lakeland, Florida

Post #20

Post by SpiritQuickens »

Celsus wrote:
InTheFlesh wrote:
Celsus wrote:
InTheFlesh wrote:If a baby is not chosen,
age of death matters not.
Age has nothing to do with seed type.
Chosen by whom, when and on what criteria?
Haven't you heard about the invisible man in the sky? :-s
I have. But when does he choose the babies and on which criteria?
One interesting answer I've heard regarding this issue has to do with Romans 1:18:

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against allungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth"-Romans 1:18.

It's argued that babies don't have sophisticated enough cognitive or volitional faculties to suppress the truth, so this doesn't apply to them, and they're saved. Who knows though.

Post Reply