The Trinity is illogical and irrational.

Celsus · Post by **Celsus** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:59 am

The Trinity is illogical and irrational.

If The Son = God and The Father = God and the Spirit = God then The Son = The Father = The Spirit.

Which obviously is not the case since all three interact with each other as separate entities and did different things in the biblical stories.

The Son, The Father and The Spirit can form God together but not each be totally God.

1+1+1 = 3 and not 1.

1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 equals to 1 of course. But that's not what the Christian dogma says.

So is there anyone in here claiming that the Trinity can be explained logically and rationally?

McCulloch · Post by **McCulloch** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:41 am

Some will claim that
1 Ã— 1 Ã— 1 = 3
explains it.

It does not.

As far as I understand it, it is comparable to the wave particle duality. It cannot be rationally explained yet it is the necessary conclusion from in the case of wave particle duality the evidence and in the case of Trinity, what is in the Bible and accepted Christian theology.

Celsus · Post by **Celsus** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:53 am

McCulloch wrote:Some will claim that
1 Ã— 1 Ã— 1 = 3
explains it.

It does not.

Of course it does not (and I guess you mean 1x1x1=1?).

As far as I understand it, it is comparable to the wave particle duality. It cannot be rationally explained yet it is the necessary conclusion from in the case of wave particle duality the evidence and in the case of Trinity, what is in the Bible and accepted Christian theology.

I never found that analogy satisfying though.

But at least we've got evidence for the wave particle duality. Unlike in the case of the Trinity where we have none.

The Trinity also creates a whole bunch of contradictions and incoherences.

If The Son is God then was Heaven empty when the Son was walking around on the planet? And if Heaven was not empty then how can The Son have been God? Some 'thing' was left then which was not The Son. etc.

Shane · Post by **Shane** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:11 pm

Celsus wrote:

The Trinity is illogical and irrational.

I agree.
I asked about this many times while attending a private Christian school. The answer I got was an analogy to time. It was something along the lines of, "Time encompasses the past, the present, and the future...as does God encompass Holy spirit, Jesus, and The Father."

That explanation never worked for me, because the three entities describes as "god" seem to be either interacting with each other, as you mentioned, or they are in the same place at the same time. This is unlike the time analogy, in that the past, present, and future do not overlap (as far as I know).

This would eventually lead to discussing the stream of time and if god can act outside the known boundaries of space/time...which I stayed away from. I just flat out admitted to them- I don't know if god even exists, so I will not claim qualities or give attributes to something that is unknown.

I hope someone will be able to explain it for you though, as I am interested in this as well.

Celsus · Post by **Celsus** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:21 am

Thank you for your answer, Shane. Let's wait for a Christian answer then.

There are Christians on these boards, right?

Faith Leads to Knowledge · Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:07 am

No one knows God's essence. We have fathers who have given us models, and how the trinitarian nature of God is a model for everyday life but that is about it.

Tesla of all people once said "I still don't know what electricity is". Maybe it's kinda like that.

Faith Leads to Knowledge · Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:10 am

for the sake of the debate, are the terms 'illogical' and 'irrational' being used in a pejorative sense?

Celsus · Post by **Celsus** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:19 am

Faith Leads to Knowledge wrote:No one knows God's essence. We have fathers who have given us models, and how the trinitarian nature of God is a model for everyday life but that is about it.

Tesla of all people once said "I still don't know what electricity is". Maybe it's kinda like that.

So you can't explain the Trinity?

Celsus · Post by **Celsus** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:20 am

Faith Leads to Knowledge wrote:for the sake of the debate, are the terms 'illogical' and 'irrational' being used in a pejorative sense?

Of course. Logic and rationality are to be preferred.

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:14 am

Faith Leads to Knowledge wrote:No one knows God's essence. We have fathers who have given us models, and how the trinitarian nature of God is a model for everyday life but that is about it.

Tesla of all people once said "I still don't know what electricity is". Maybe it's kinda like that.

I think the Trinidadian position was a battle fought among orthodox Christians that divide East and West. The Greek West had the Greek language and philosophy while the West had the writings. The West wanted Jesus and God to be equal while the East saw God the Father as above Jesus. It is a question about Jesus being fully divine and full human and preexistence.
The West won and they made Jesus fully human and fully divine and it is about essence as they insisted Jesus was made from God stuff.