is it possible to question a persons faith?

Mydian · Post by **Mydian** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:05 pm

I am trying to figure out how to logically address a persons faith. It would seem that it cant be questioned because it is faith. That all a person has to say to put a stalemate into any argument is that it is my faith and they believe because they believe. I dont have to except their view of reality but i can not invalidate it. Is their anyway around this?

And sorry if this has been previously asked...

Nilloc James · Post by **Nilloc James** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:48 pm

Remind them it is irrational.

Mister E · Post by **Mister E** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:05 pm

In the case of Christianity, can't you just disprove God absolutely? For most Christian beliefs, anyway.

Jaysin · Post by **Jaysin** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:23 pm

Mister E wrote:In the case of Christianity, can't you just disprove God absolutely? For most Christian beliefs, anyway.

God is not falsifiable. Just like pink unicorns belching the Universe into existence is also not falsifiable.

Mydian · Post by **Mydian** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:59 pm

I think the irrational way is the way to go thanks Nilloc..

Mister E · Post by **Mister E** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:02 pm

Jaysin wrote:
Mister E wrote:In the case of Christianity, can't you just disprove God absolutely? For most Christian beliefs, anyway.
God is not falsifiable. Just like pink unicorns belching the Universe into existence is also not falsifiable.

An omniscient/benevolent God and free will coexisting is impossible, though? That proves the stereotypical Christian God cannot exist by itself, methinks.

Cephus · Post by **Cephus** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:56 pm

Mydian wrote:I am trying to figure out how to logically address a persons faith. It would seem that it cant be questioned because it is faith. That all a person has to say to put a stalemate into any argument is that it is my faith and they believe because they believe. I dont have to except their view of reality but i can not invalidate it. Is their anyway around this?

You really can't rationally question a person's faith because faith is not rational to begin with. In order to rationally question it, the other person would have to agree to follow the rules of debate and logic and accept the possibility that their faith is wrong, should the evidence point in that direction. Since you will rarely, if ever, find a theist who is willing to do any of that, it's a waste of time.

Unfortunately, you find theists out there who will demand that their faith is entirely rational, then go on to prove they don't have a clue what "rationality" or "logic" is. I've tried pointing out that believing in a god without a shred of evidence is no more rational than believing in unicorns without a shred of evidence, they just get offended that you dare to compare the two, they can't see that they're talking about the same irrational game, just using two different words.

catalyst · Post by **catalyst** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:31 pm

I know we are not supposed to do "one-liners", so by writing this, I will make it into two.

Faith, is nothing more than wishful thinking.

Cephus · Post by **Cephus** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:01 pm

catalyst wrote:Faith, is nothing more than wishful thinking.

Absolutely true, but you'll never get the faithful to admit to it. Faith, especially blind faith, is an irrational fantasy that believers insist, with no good reason, is factually true. Because they have no good reason for believing it in the first place, it's often difficult to poke holes in their "good reasons" in an effort to get them to reject it.

catalyst · Post by **catalyst** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:09 am

Cephus wrote:
catalyst wrote:Faith, is nothing more than wishful thinking.
Absolutely true, but you'll never get the faithful to admit to it. Faith, especially blind faith, is an irrational fantasy that believers insist, with no good reason, is factually true. Because they have no good reason for believing it in the first place, it's often difficult to poke holes in their "good reasons" in an effort to get them to reject it.

Hi Cephus,

Oh I realise that, because like you, I was there too and converted many in my time to the "blind faith" position. It was a very easy sell too and gave good reason. The faith is hoping beyond hope that SOMETHING is there to "fix your s---" for you. It doesn't make it a real reason, but it makes it a "good" one for those looking for a 'promised" quick fix to their issues.

It is when the "stuff" they are trying to avoid is still there, that the even moreso irrational thought processes come into play. X happened because "satan" had something to to with it, or "god" works in mysterious ways.....

Blame anything for their lot, but themselves basically.

Mister E · Post by **Mister E** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:57 am

I have the perfect quote for this:

"10) I hope everyone knows, but I am a Christian. I got baptised on 30th November last year. I am really excited for what I've seen God doing in my life and the lives of my friends, and am even more excited about what's gunna happen in the future. I love being able to trust God, and not having to worry about stuff.

11) Consequently I'm not really worried about school, or my future or my relationships cos I know God's in control."

The only problem with that is, why is it suddenly not God's fault that the majority of the world is evil/living in sadness and sin?

Off topic, but I haven't seen this anywhere on the forum so I thought it would fit in here. If God knows everything and created the universe, we can't have free will, and if we don't have free will then God is evil, so the Christian God is always paradoxical... as far as I can tell.

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is it possible to question a persons faith?

is it possible to question a persons faith?

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