Proof The Quran Is True

[JoeyKnothead]

Let's examine the Quran and see if it can be proven to be the actual word of Allah, or prove the existence of Allah.

muhammad rasullah has offered some evidence, that if proven correct, to me at least would be very powerful proof for the Quran's claims...

So what you are searching for is proof that the knowledge in the quran man could not have come up with himself. Okay I will consent to that.

In the Qur'an, which was revealed fourteen centuries ago at a time when the science of astronomy was still primitive, the expansion of the universe was described in the following terms:

And it is We Who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We Who are steadily expanding it. (Qur'an, 51:47)

The word "heaven," as stated in the verse above, is used in various places in the Qur'an. It is referring to space and the wider universe. Here again, the word is used with this meaning, stating that the universe "expands." The Arabic word "moosiaaoona" in the term "inna lamoosiaaoona," translated into English as "it is We Who are steadily expanding it", comes from the verb "evsea," meaning "to expand." The prefix "la" emphasises the following name or title and adds a sense of "to a great extent." This expression therefore means "We expand the sky or the universe to a great extent." This is the very conclusion that science has reached today.
How could this have been known at the time of the prophet over 1400 years ago? It is there and science has proven this a a fact. So now you have to answer the question in a reasonable and logical way with proof as to where else this knowledge could've come from? considering that knowone knew this to be true.
The link is given and you can read more about it yourself...

http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_02.html
_________________
Bismillahir rahmaanir Raheem "In The Name of Allah, the most gracious, the most merciful"

[JoeyKnothead]

This is weak in the extreme. Since I was a kid I'd watch muddy creeks after the rain. It fascinated me how the muddy creeks would interact with the lake. A difference in density or salinity or temperature will cause water to seem to separate, but it will reach equilibrium in due time. Just because someone a long time ago noticed this is hardly proof of anything. I don't see how we can equate what is common knowledge with a god.

[muhammad rasullah]

This is weak in the extreme. Since I was a kid I'd watch muddy creeks after the rain. It fascinated me how the muddy creeks would interact with the lake. A difference in density or salinity or temperature will cause water to seem to separate, but it will reach equilibrium in due time. Just because someone a long time ago noticed this is hardly proof of anything. I don't see how we can equate what is common knowledge with a god.

This isn't just observable knowledge. Besides even if it was how would he know since he lived in the desert. there are no creeks in the desert. No rivers or lakes or nothing he didnt even live by nor travel to any sea during his lifetime. Besides the verse above isnt talking about rivers or lakes its talking about the seas. Nobody knew about density, salinity this wasn't none amongst the people. Nor was it known in the desert that that these two seas don't mix. Prove that they did I am seeing so many statements but no proof.

[Pazuzu bin Hanbi]

He was a tradesman and merchant in his youth. People from all over Arabia went through Mecca, hence why his tribe made so much money. Obviously he would have mingled with people who DID know about the sea!

[muhammad rasullah]

He was a tradesman and merchant in his youth. People from all over Arabia went through Mecca, hence why his tribe made so much money. Obviously he would have mingled with people who DID know about the sea!

I dont sea how this is obvious. Prove it!

[Wyvern]

He was a tradesman and merchant in his youth. People from all over Arabia went through Mecca, hence why his tribe made so much money. Obviously he would have mingled with people who DID know about the sea!

I dont sea how this is obvious. Prove it!

Please take the time to familiarize yourself with your religions founder, a two minute search on wiki showed that in his youth he went on caravans to Syria and in Mecca he was involved in trade between the Indian ocean and the Mediterranean. As a trader dealing with such kinds of trade he had to associate with people that knew about the seas. On the caravans it is very likely he skirted the Mediterranean coast or followed the Tigris and Euphrates simply because thats what traders do, go where the people are.

[Wyvern]

This is weak in the extreme. Since I was a kid I'd watch muddy creeks after the rain. It fascinated me how the muddy creeks would interact with the lake. A difference in density or salinity or temperature will cause water to seem to separate, but it will reach equilibrium in due time. Just because someone a long time ago noticed this is hardly proof of anything. I don't see how we can equate what is common knowledge with a god.

This isn't just observable knowledge. Besides even if it was how would he know since he lived in the desert. there are no creeks in the desert. No rivers or lakes or nothing he didnt even live by nor travel to any sea during his lifetime. Besides the verse above isnt talking about rivers or lakes its talking about the seas. Nobody knew about density, salinity this wasn't none amongst the people. Nor was it known in the desert that that these two seas don't mix. Prove that they did I am seeing so many statements but no proof.

Which surah exactly are you taslking about now? The two you cited earlier make no mention of seas and the first one specifically speak of fresh water flowing into salt water such as you would get from a river flowing into the sea. Where are these seas that you are talking about anyways? I am not aware of any fresh water sea that flows into a salt water sea without making use of a river inbetween. As you like to say, prove that this exists or you are simply trying to uphold your beliefs with no proof.

So your mission is show the surah is taslking about two seas and not a river estuary and secondly show where there is a fresh water sea directly connected to a salt water sea.
BTW did you totally ignore my previous posts which show science papers that observed both river to sea mixing and sea to sea mixing. Yet another aside you do know that seas are mostly human denotations and not actually physical structures.

[byofrcs]

This is weak in the extreme. Since I was a kid I'd watch muddy creeks after the rain. It fascinated me how the muddy creeks would interact with the lake. A difference in density or salinity or temperature will cause water to seem to separate, but it will reach equilibrium in due time. Just because someone a long time ago noticed this is hardly proof of anything. I don't see how we can equate what is common knowledge with a god.

This isn't just observable knowledge. Besides even if it was how would he know since he lived in the desert. there are no creeks in the desert. No rivers or lakes or nothing he didnt even live by nor travel to any sea during his lifetime. Besides the verse above isnt talking about rivers or lakes its talking about the seas. Nobody knew about density, salinity this wasn't none amongst the people. Nor was it known in the desert that that these two seas don't mix. Prove that they did I am seeing so many statements but no proof.

This is getting utterly incredulous. Are we actually talking about the same person ?. Can you please confirm that we are talking about Muhammad of Islam because you're making absolutely no sense.

Anyone in this area who does trade or has been involved in trade for the past 6,000 years would know about the Dead Sea, the Mediterranean, the Indian ocean and would know of the dramatic differences in salinity between these bodies of water. It's noticeable in taste (salt being essential to pickle foods like olives) and effects on equipment e.g. levels of boats in water. Densities and displacement are fairly well documented hundreds of years before Muhammad (e.g. Marcus Vitruvius Pollio in around 25 BC).

Given that all of these events related to the life of Muhammad span between the Mediterranean, the Arabian Gulf and Indian ocean then any long distance trader would notice the difference. Muhammad just happened to be involved in trade in this area for many years. I guess that is all Western lies. As others have commented on it seems utterly inconceivable that someone who professes to be a Muslim understands so little about an essential element of the faith. Either you are acting in poor faith by deliberately distorting facts or you are just ignorant or the facts are wrong.

Which one do you pick ?

[muhammad rasullah]

This is weak in the extreme. Since I was a kid I'd watch muddy creeks after the rain. It fascinated me how the muddy creeks would interact with the lake. A difference in density or salinity or temperature will cause water to seem to separate, but it will reach equilibrium in due time. Just because someone a long time ago noticed this is hardly proof of anything. I don't see how we can equate what is common knowledge with a god.

This isn't just observable knowledge. Besides even if it was how would he know since he lived in the desert. there are no creeks in the desert. No rivers or lakes or nothing he didnt even live by nor travel to any sea during his lifetime. Besides the verse above isnt talking about rivers or lakes its talking about the seas. Nobody knew about density, salinity this wasn't none amongst the people. Nor was it known in the desert that that these two seas don't mix. Prove that they did I am seeing so many statements but no proof.

This is getting utterly incredulous. Are we actually talking about the same person ?. Can you please confirm that we are talking about Muhammad of Islam because you're making absolutely no sense.

Anyone in this area who does trade or has been involved in trade for the past 6,000 years would know about the Dead Sea, the Mediterranean, the Indian ocean and would know of the dramatic differences in salinity between these bodies of water. It's noticeable in taste (salt being essential to pickle foods like olives) and effects on equipment e.g. levels of boats in water. Densities and displacement are fairly well documented hundreds of years before Muhammad (e.g. Marcus Vitruvius Pollio in around 25 BC).

Given that all of these events related to the life of Muhammad span between the Mediterranean, the Arabian Gulf and Indian ocean then any long distance trader would notice the difference. Muhammad just happened to be involved in trade in this area for many years. I guess that is all Western lies. As others have commented on it seems utterly inconceivable that someone who professes to be a Muslim understands so little about an essential element of the faith. Either you are acting in poor faith by deliberately distorting facts or you are just ignorant or the facts are wrong.

Which one do you pick ?

Again all statements but no evidence. Obvious you say obvious! Then produce your evidence if it is so obvious you are just making claims assuming that they are obvious assuming that he met someone who knew about the sea and the person told him that the two seas don't mix and there's a barrier between them. That's a great assumption my friend especially when you have no evidence to back up your claim. I dont see how this is so obvious really. What we are talking about has to do with facts. I find it funny that you are not arguing the legitimacy of the claim from the quran but instead making arroneous assumptions for which you have again I say NO EVIDENCE. Please this is a debate so bring your proof. or just accept the evidence that is there.

[muhammad rasullah]

He was a tradesman and merchant in his youth. People from all over Arabia went through Mecca, hence why his tribe made so much money. Obviously he would have mingled with people who DID know about the sea!

I dont sea how this is obvious. Prove it!

Please take the time to familiarize yourself with your religions founder, a two minute search on wiki showed that in his youth he went on caravans to Syria and in Mecca he was involved in trade between the Indian ocean and the Mediterranean. As a trader dealing with such kinds of trade he had to associate with people that knew about the seas. On the caravans it is very likely he skirted the Mediterranean coast or followed the Tigris and Euphrates simply because thats what traders do, go where the people are.

No proof still speculation. So your assuming just because he was a trader that he met somebody who told him about the seas not mixing together and there is a barrier between them? Is that what you really are suggesting. If that is so then prove it please. You are saying he had to have done this. Why? Why did someone have to had told him about the seas? How do you know? Prove it to me please. Even if he was involved in trade between the seas it doesn't mean he knew anything about them. He was from the desert. I thought this was a debate, this isnt proof. I've brought my evidence from the quran and supported with scientific evidence. I'm curious why your not arguing against what the quran says. That shows that what it says is true. So you have to try and remain doubtful of where he could've gotten his information so you continue without proof to assume someone told him about. Come on prove it please. Or just say that the quran is right there's nothing wrong with that.

[Wyvern]

He was a tradesman and merchant in his youth. People from all over Arabia went through Mecca, hence why his tribe made so much money. Obviously he would have mingled with people who DID know about the sea!

I dont sea how this is obvious. Prove it!

Please take the time to familiarize yourself with your religions founder, a two minute search on wiki showed that in his youth he went on caravans to Syria and in Mecca he was involved in trade between the Indian ocean and the Mediterranean. As a trader dealing with such kinds of trade he had to associate with people that knew about the seas. On the caravans it is very likely he skirted the Mediterranean coast or followed the Tigris and Euphrates simply because thats what traders do, go where the people are.

No proof still speculation. So your assuming just because he was a trader that he met somebody who told him about the seas not mixing together and there is a barrier between them? Is that what you really are suggesting. If that is so then prove it please. You are saying he had to have done this. Why? Why did someone have to had told him about the seas? How do you know? Prove it to me please. Even if he was involved in trade between the seas it doesn't mean he knew anything about them. He was from the desert. I thought this was a debate, this isnt proof. I've brought my evidence from the quran and supported with scientific evidence. I'm curious why your not arguing against what the quran says. That shows that what it says is true. So you have to try and remain doubtful of where he could've gotten his information so you continue without proof to assume someone told him about. Come on prove it please. Or just say that the quran is right there's nothing wrong with that.

This is getting rather tiresome, I have refuted what the koran says back in post 35 and 37 neither of which have you commented on. Additionally it is becoming increasingly obvious that you are being willfully ignorant about the life or your religions founder.

It is known that in his youth Mohammed was a trader and went on caravan to Syria. Just as now the vast majority of people live near water. A trader makes his living by interacting with people and getting them to buy his wares. Although later in life Mohammed did for a time become a hermit a trader that is a hermit will starve to death.