Free will and God

stevencarrwork · Post by **stevencarrwork** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 12:35 pm

Can God create beings with free will who he knows will never choose evil?

Has he actually done that, or have all his free-willed creatures rebelled at one time or another?

ST88 · Post by **ST88** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:36 am

stevencarrwork:

Your question is a little vague and perhaps impossibly hypothetical. For one thing, there is no free will with this kind of behavioral limitation. I can think of only two creatures that God created with free will, humans and angels, and both of them have members who rebelled at one time or another.

Are you trying to get at the limitation of God's handiwork? Or maybe this is a question about the purpose of free will?

stevencarrwork · Post by **stevencarrwork** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:41 am

ST88 wrote: For one thing, there is no free will with this kind of behavioral limitation. I can think of only two creatures that God created with free will, humans and angels, and both of them have members who rebelled at one time or another.

But God (according to Christian) has created angels with free will, who he knew would never rebel.

So it is perfectly possible for God to create beings with free will who never choose evil. Apparently God has done it.

So why did he also create angels that he knew would rebel?

Bro Dave · Post by **Bro Dave** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:40 am

stevencarrwork wrote:
ST88 wrote: For one thing, there is no free will with this kind of behavioral limitation. I can think of only two creatures that God created with free will, humans and angels, and both of them have members who rebelled at one time or another.
But God (according to Christian) has created angels with free will, who he knew would never rebel.

So it is perfectly possible for God to create beings with free will who never choose evil. Apparently God has done it.

So why did he also create angels that he knew would rebel?

Its not so cut and dried as pictured by the question. The universe administration is vast, with many, many types of beings, some ranks of which have never defaulted, while the being that approach the mortal end of the angelic hierarchy are more inclined to do so.
Lucifer, literally a being of light, was faily high withing the administration of the local universe, and brought down many angels and other planetary administrators with him. All this is expected in beings "less than perfect", and only adds more depth to the experiences in the overall plan.

Bro Dave

ST88 · Post by **ST88** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:50 pm

Bro Dave wrote:Its not so cut and dried as pictured by the question. The universe administration is vast, with many, many types of beings, some ranks of which have never defaulted, while the being that approach the mortal end of the angelic hierarchy are more inclined to do so.
Lucifer, literally a being of light, was faily high withing the administration of the local universe, and brought down many angels and other planetary administrators with him. All this is expected in beings "less than perfect", and only adds more depth to the experiences in the overall plan.

Are you saying that God created Angels to be different "ranks," like some kind of heavenly caste system?

Bro Dave · Post by **Bro Dave** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:26 pm

ST88 wrote:
Bro Dave wrote:Its not so cut and dried as pictured by the question. The universe administration is vast, with many, many types of beings, some ranks of which have never defaulted, while the being that approach the mortal end of the angelic hierarchy are more inclined to do so.
Lucifer, literally a being of light, was faily high withing the administration of the local universe, and brought down many angels and other planetary administrators with him. All this is expected in beings "less than perfect", and only adds more depth to the experiences in the overall plan.
Are you saying that God created Angels to be different "ranks," like some kind of heavenly caste system?

Not a "caste system", they are simply specially designed to accomplish specific tasks. There are Life Carriers, whose job it is to evolve systems capable of sustaining life. Ultimately, that life is brought to a refined enough level that it is mortal. This then requires other angelic beings who come to inhabit those worlds, and assist in "parenting" these new mortals as they continue to grow in spirituality. There simply are many, many varieties of celestials who assist in the unfoldment of the Universe. Some, like the Melchezideks, are specifically teachers, while others, are meant to administer.

Bro Dave