A question to Jews about Jesus Christ:

[Truth_Teller]

The following question has been in my mind since quite a few days and thus have decided to ask posters of Judaism belief (on board):

If Jesus (peace be upon him) was a false prophet/messiah (God forbid) and was punished by the court by being killed at the cross, do you have any grave or anything as a proof to show that he really died at the cross (God forbid)???

Will be very thank if any Jew can clarify things here by replying.

Waiting for your answers folks......

[OnceConvinced]

If you can't prove someone existed, how can you prove they got executed?

Prove to me that Thomas Edison ever existed and he isn´t a fictious character???

Why would we care if he is ficititious or not? No one has attempted to create a religion based on the life of Thomas Edison. No one attempts to live their life revolving around his teachings.

[cnorman18]

Your religion, Islam, teaches that Muslims may not take Jews as friends or allies, that Jews are liars and tricksters and not to be trusted, and that Jews (and Christians) are to be constantly reminded that they are inferior to Muslims when they are allowed to live under Muslim rule at all. Many Muslim clergy teach that it is perfectly all right, and in fact a sacred duty of all Muslims, to murder Jews outright--armed or unarmed, adult or child--whenever possible, and in fact that killing oneself in order to murder large numbers of unarmed and innocent Jews, including pregnant women and infants, is a good and holy act that guarantees immediate entrance into Paradise.

Very few Muslims indeed speak out openly against such teachings.

Do you agree with these ideas? If so, why? If not, have you ever publicly said so among your fellow Muslims?

Islam doesn´t teach all this.

Would you like a list of quotations from the Quran and the Hadith that indicate that it inarguably does?

It´s myth by non-Muslims which has been made to look more than truthful by these blind Mullahs. They are extremists but that doesn´t mean that Islam starts and ends at their door-step. They are wrong and I´m against them. That´s all!!!

I commend you on your opposition to these vile teachings, but you did not finish answering my questions: Do you speak out against them among you fellow Muslims?

[C-Nub]

One could use quotes from the bible to support the notion that Christians don't view women as people, it doesn't necessarily mean that's what they teach. If your own faith is moderated between the words on the page and, god help me for how corny it is, 'what's in your heart', then it's fairly reasonable to assume the same is at least possible for Islam.

[Goat]

One could use quotes from the bible to support the notion that Christians don't view women as people, it doesn't necessarily mean that's what they teach. If your own faith is moderated between the words on the page and, god help me for how corny it is, 'what's in your heart', then it's fairly reasonable to assume the same is at least possible for Islam.

Yes, it is possible.

However, in the current state of affairs in the third world islamic countries, how are 'infidels' looked at? How are women treated? How are rape victims treated? At what age are women married?

I am not talking about the words in a book. I am talking about the actions that people are doing that they used that book to justify.

When it comes to the insurgencies in many of the third world countries, how many are being justified though Islam? How is the radical form of Islam effecting Algeria, in the Philopines, in the Sudan, in Cambodia, Thailand ?? How about the implementation of Sharia law, and how that effects people.

That is what I am looking at.

[cnorman18]

One could use quotes from the bible to support the notion that Christians don't view women as people, it doesn't necessarily mean that's what they teach. If your own faith is moderated between the words on the page and, god help me for how corny it is, 'what's in your heart', then it's fairly reasonable to assume the same is at least possible for Islam.

Point taken; you are quite right about that. However, considering the enormous number of Muslim clergy (and even Muslim governments) that promote these ideas, and the howling silence with which they are greeted by "moderate" Muslims, one might reasonably assume those beliefs are current and active.

Muslims will take to the streets en masse to protest the publication of a few mildly objectionable cartoons featuring an irreverent view of Mohammed; but mass murder in the name of Allah, an act that is by any rational standard blasphemous in the extreme if Islam is truly a "religion of peace," sees them sitting on their hands in acquiescent silence, if not taking to the streets in joyous celebration. I suppose one must draw one's own conclusions.

I have said many, many times that Islam is an ancient, honorable and noble faith that has been largely hijacked by extremists whose goals are more often social and political rather than religious. The problem, as I see it, is that there is relatively little resistance to the hijackers.

[C-Nub]

I'm not on the side of Islam, but let's try to take the opposite view anyways. I don't recall a whole lot of Christian protest to the mormon child-molesting house-thing that's been all over the news. Mormons are Christians, and while you might not see them as the same as you, the Islamics that hear about it might very well fail to make the distinction. There's not a whole lot of protesting. Christians don't seem too upset about the Catholic priests molesting their kids, nor are many of you coming across as very apologetic for the Holocaust.

If you're going to judge all by the actions of some, no matter what % that 'some' represents, then you have to do it two ways. Our Islamic friend here doesn't appear to be a bomb wielding murderer, despite his penchant for preaching, which, get this, is kind of appropriate for this forum.

I'm not saying you're wrong with your point of view, I'm just saying it would be very easy to hold a very similar point of view when looking at your own larger religious grouping.

[cnorman18]

I'm not on the side of Islam, but let's try to take the opposite view anyways. I don't recall a whole lot of Christian protest to the mormon child-molesting house-thing that's been all over the news. Mormons are Christians, and while you might not see them as the same as you, the Islamics that hear about it might very well fail to make the distinction. There's not a whole lot of protesting.

I don't think that's quite accurate, on several counts. First, Mormonism is not considered a Christian religion according to most Christians; it is one of the four major quasi- or pseudo-Christian cults, along with Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, and Seventh-Day Adventism.

Second, the objections to the practices of FLDS are not so much religious as legal. The forced and phony marriage of thirteen-year-old girls to middle-aged men in order to facilitate statutory rape is first a problem in criminal law, never mind religion. I doubt very much that many Christians regard such practices so much as a shame to the Christian religion--of which, as I say, even normative Mormonism is not a part--as a moral outrage in general that has nothing to do with their own faith. And I think that's an accurate assessment.

Christians don't seem too upset about the Catholic priests molesting their kids....

Where do you live? Catholics and other Christians all over the US are up in arms about that abuse and its being covered up by the Church hierarchy. More than one priest has gone to prison over it, and more than one bishop has been forced to resign, not to mention the Catholic Church as an institution being sued in civil court. The Church has been forced to pay out tens of millions of dollars in damages, and will pay tens of millions more before all the suits are settled. Literally hundreds of thousands of Catholics have left the Church because of that specific issue.

...nor are many of you coming across as very apologetic for the Holocaust.

For the record, I am a Jew, not a Christian, and on that point I have no argument. I do not regard Christianity as being directly and immediately responsible for the Holocaust, but its teachings certainly laid the foundation for it and those who carried it out were overwhemingly nominal Christians. Christianity as an institution has not dealt adequately with these issues to this day, though blatant institutional antisemitism seems to have all but disappeared from most of its denominations, with the sad and shameful exceptions of the Russian Orthodox Church and a few small cults of retrograde Catholics and Protestants. From my point of view, it remains unfinished business.

If you're going to judge all by the actions of some, no matter what % that 'some' represents, then you have to do it two ways. Our Islamic friend here doesn't appear to be a bomb wielding murderer, despite his penchant for preaching, which, get this, is kind of appropriate for this forum.

True enough; but just as you have questioned the supposed absence of Christian protest at Christian atrocities and abuses, I think it appropriate to question just how much actual, active, and vocal opposition to crimes committed in the name of Islam has been sparked by TruthTeller's claimed disagreement with them. I have not yet seen his reply, and it would be unfair to judge prematurely; but a truthful answer from most moderate Muslims would have to be "not much."

I'm not saying you're wrong with your point of view, I'm just saying it would be very easy to hold a very similar point of view when looking at your own larger religious grouping.

Maybe not. I'm a Jew, and our record has been pretty good since the (inhistorical, as it turns out) conquest of Canaan.

[Goat]

I'm not on the side of Islam, but let's try to take the opposite view anyways. I don't recall a whole lot of Christian protest to the mormon child-molesting house-thing that's been all over the news. Mormons are Christians, and while you might not see them as the same as you, the Islamics that hear about it might very well fail to make the distinction. There's not a whole lot of protesting. Christians don't seem too upset about the Catholic priests molesting their kids, nor are many of you coming across as very apologetic for the Holocaust.

If you're going to judge all by the actions of some, no matter what % that 'some' represents, then you have to do it two ways. Our Islamic friend here doesn't appear to be a bomb wielding murderer, despite his penchant for preaching, which, get this, is kind of appropriate for this forum.

I'm not saying you're wrong with your point of view, I'm just saying it would be very easy to hold a very similar point of view when looking at your own larger religious grouping.

It is not just some, it is a substantial amount of the group. I don't have a problem with Islam per say, I have a problem how it is implemented in a large part of the world. Do you see the difference? When people get murdered for being critical of Islam, that is a problem. When people get murdered for leaving Islam, that is a problem. For rape victims to be murdered for bringing dishonor to the family by being raped, that is a problem.

[Pazuzu bin Hanbi]

mass murder in the name of Allah, an act that is by any rational standard blasphemous in the extreme if Islam is truly a "religion of peace," sees them sitting on their hands in acquiescent silence, if not taking to the streets in joyous celebration.

http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/terror.htm

[Goat]

mass murder in the name of Allah, an act that is by any rational standard blasphemous in the extreme if Islam is truly a "religion of peace," sees them sitting on their hands in acquiescent silence, if not taking to the streets in joyous celebration.

http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/terror.htm

Thank you very much. That shows there is a number of reasonable viewpoints. IMO, most of the places where I find the actions of Islam distasteful is where religion meets political power.

I think that is the main difference between modern Christianity and Islam. Christian societies are not theocracies anymore, but the 'Islamic Hot Spots' , the government is either a theocracy, or there are rebels attempting to make the government a theocracy.