Do you really care that I am going to hell?

Cmass · Post by **Cmass** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 4:55 am

I don't think you really believe I will fry in Hell for being an Atheist. I don't think you really truly believe any of your non-believing family will either. I think deep down, you know it just isn't true.

If you do believe they will all fry and are not doing absolutely everything in your power to stop it, I would suggest that you are a very cold, dispassionate person. If you really believed your dearly beloved mother was going to burn in hell right next to Cmass and Charles Manson then you would stop at nothing to convince her to accept Jesus. You would not just gently encourage, you would be emotionally and perhaps even physically engaged on a daily and hourly basis. You most certainly would not be reading this silly OP right now. Not if you REALLY cared.

Think about it. If you saw your mother being beaten by someone on the street, would you stop to help save her? Would you put your own life at risk to keep her from drowning? Is there anything you would not do to help her? OK, what about eternal torture in hell? Doesn't this concern you? What about all the other people in your life who are going to hell? Doesn't this leave you feeling devastated? If I believed there was a hell and that so many people would be going - especially any of my friends or family - I would be in constant agony myself and would devote my life to stopping it. Or, I would be numb.

Does your knowledge that so many people will be in eternal torture bother you very much on a daily basis?

This OP came about after reading commentary by some of our more conservative Christian friends in here. Some seem to have no real problem with all us atheists burning in hell forever. Granted, there are probably some personal anger issues involved but still, I have always been uneasy with how casual many Christians are when it comes to discussing eternal damnation. Some get more upset over running over a kitty than the eternal torture of their best friend.

Nonetheless, I give most the benefit of the doubt: I don't think they are really that cold. I just don't think they really believe as much in the hell concept as they report.

Cmass · Post by **Cmass** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:04 am

Lainey wrote:

...--are there any special plants involved in your communion with the Lord?

LOL! I sense the ghost of Wizanda. His last post: "Cannabis in the anointing oil heals" http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/p ... ile&u=1778
Lainey wrote:

Cmass, if it makes you feel any better, I don't want you to go to Hell.

Very kind of you Lainey. Your empathy shines through. Empathy is one of the most important aspects of being human. Without empathy you cannot have love. Without love you cannot have love for a God or Jesus creature. But, with empathy also comes pain because you "feel" the others pain. If you take away that pain, then you take away the empathy the love and thus the Heaven. It is a paradox. (albeit a bit off topic)

Lainey wrote:

I don't even get along with MY mother that well, and when I imagined your scenario I felt sick and disgusted. I tear up when other people even cry (whether I know them or not), and I just about lose it when I see a dead or almost-dead (that's worse) animal on the side of the road.

This is the "pain" part of empathy. The pain of loss of something or someone you cared about. Take away your empathy and you don't have to have the pain, but then you really cease to be human.....although you do stand a much better chance of being a successful serial killer!

Lainey wrote:

Having all your memories taken away doesn't seem like a really good thing, either. You'd be a robot.

You would not even be a robot. Having watched my son go from zygote to little boy I can say with confidence that without your ability to remember and learn, you would be little more than a blob. You most certainly could not be conscious or think or decide anything. I suppose you could just be a blob of pure joy at the foot of God without any distinguishing characteristics...but that is not what Christianity advertises. Most Christians I know discuss Heaven as if it were a really cool place to live - like Mayberry.

Lainey wrote:

I have a friend who's a fundamentalist, but she doesn't believe Hell is a fiery place. She thinks it's a state of separation from God, where there is no joy or anything good (she thinks everything good comes from God, and the absence of him means that there is nothing but misery). What do you think of this?

I have heard this before. It is certainly a more credible concept than the pit of fire nonsense, but no matter how much you water it down, even being somewhat uncomfortable or lonely forever and ever and ever is a pretty damn awful fate. Even if it was only like having a bad case of the flu forever, if I really believed it were true, I would do everything in my power on a daily basis to make certain my loved ones did not end up there. And I would be VERY upset by the thought of it...and probably a bit miffed at God for setting the system up this way. Thus, I give most Christians the benefit of the doubt and assume they are not lacking in empathy but instead, they really don't believe in Hell - even a watered down version.

Lainey wrote:

I don't believe in any version of Hell, unless there's a "rehabilitation" process of some sort maybe.

Yes, torture forever without any possible way to improve seems childish at best. It seems we on earth are far better than God at dealing with punishment for "bad people". And our scientists are even beginning to tap into "why" people commit crimes. It seems that God is not quite that advanced. He cannot seem to figure out why some people can't believe in Him!

Is it any less cold to believe in this less physically but more psychologically painful version of hell?

No. Would you rather be beaten as a child or psychologically tortured?

Cmass · Post by **Cmass** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:08 am

Metatron wrote:
And what is the point of Hell since if God did the exact same thing to them,
Adlemi wrote:
Not too fast my friend, it will be quite different in hell for in there will come a time where you will fight or wrestle with someone who told you that there is no hell hence you believed him.

I am telling him there is no Hell. Yikes, is the ME he will be wrestling? I haven't wrestled since Jr. High & likely to get my arse wooped.....I better start practicing.

Cmass · Post by **Cmass** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:41 am

Adlemi wrote:

it is just the memory of your past that you have to lose but not your mind which is still intact with your spirit and soul in paradise. you still have the free will in paradise hence you can still do bad things to your fellow out there and fall back to hell afterward.

I've got to give you credit Adlemi, I am impressed with the lack of embarrassment you show for your statements. You don't hesitate to share with us what God personally says to you - even things that many other Christians in this forum would have trouble with. Regardless of what I might express regarding your logic or critical thinking skills, you get high

marks for being you. You have actually taken on my OP directly by stating there are no memories in Heaven. And now you state that people can fall back into Hell by being bad in Heaven. Whoa. We have minds but no memories. We have free will and can behave badly and get kicked out...but can't earn our way back into Heaven. Hmmm. Interesting.

While I don't think you have considered the ramifications of your statements, I hereby donate 5 tokens to you for your courage!

adlemi · Post by **adlemi** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:44 am

Cmass wrote: I'm confused. What is "appalling"? The Bible's lack of ability to teach us about this topic?

Sorry about that one, actually, what is applling is the hell itself and the coming jugment day where all, the living and the resurrected, from Adam to the last man born out of this world, will be consumed totally by fire and fervent heat until nothing is left (as if all things did not exist before). Bible's lack of ability to teach us the truth is just an unfortunate one that will just lead us to the appalling scenario in hell and jugment day should we still choose not to believe in God.

Cmass wrote:Please excuse my inability to fully comprehend your explanation. Are you saying that since the Bible does not explain about wiping out memories prior to Heavenly ascension, I have to learn it directly from Jesus?

Yes indeed, and this is the reason why the Lord said,

"If you want to be saved, come and get nigh with Me. If you want eternal life, come and call on to Me. Put your trust in Me because if you fail to do these things, you have no salvation and eternal life."

The Lord is talking here of literal "coming and getting nigh with Him" hence you, in return, will really encounter Jesus should you take heed of His call above and learn other things directly from Jesus.

Cmass wrote:Did you actually hear Jesus speak to you about this?

Yes I did.

Cmass wrote:If so, was it after you asked him about this matter or did he volunteer the information to you?

This was answered during our question and answer forum. We asked these things about heaven and hell. There were many follow-up questions raised.

Cmass wrote:Finally, am I correct to assume then that the matter of your mother burning in Hell does not bother you on a daily basis in your current physical life because you know it will all be forgotten when you go to Heaven?

Thanks!
- C

Wrong, your assumption this time is definitely wrong. As far as I can recall, the previous assumption is how will this impact or affect me in heaven, but since your assumption this time is here on earth on our daily basis, this will really bother me that much hence I will do all the possible ways I can do to bring my mother to Jesus before she dies and I will not stop doing same to her unto the last breath of her life. If I misunderstood you previously, accept my sincere apology to you.

Cmass · Post by **Cmass** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:03 am

Adlemi wrote:

but since your assumption this time is here on earth on our daily basis, this will really bother me that much hence I will do all the possible ways I can do to bring my mother to Jesus before she dies and I will not stop doing same to her unto the last breath of her life.

I actually am curious as to your emotional state in both your earthly and Heavenly lives. Your Heavenly life I understand because you said that your memory will be erased. And now you have explained that you do indeed do everything you can to keep your loved ones out of Hell on a daily basis and that it does indeed bother you they could be going to Hell.
May I ask what kinds of things you do each day to keep loved ones from the fires of Hell?

Cmass · Post by **Cmass** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:06 am

Adlemi wrote:

"If you want to be saved, come and get nigh with Me. If you want eternal life, come and call on to Me. Put your trust in Me because if you fail to do these things, you have no salvation and eternal life."

The Lord is talking here of literal "coming and getting nigh with Him" hence you, in return, will really encounter Jesus should you take heed of His call above and learn other things directly from Jesus.

Is this from Biblical scripture or your personal, conversational experience with Jesus?

Also, I note your liberal use of the word "nigh" which has many definitions. I assume you are using the one that means "close to" or nearby?

adlemi · Post by **adlemi** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:19 am

Cmass wrote: You have actually taken on my OP directly by stating there are no memories in Heaven. !

Memories of your past life, let me be specific with that part.

Cmass wrote: And now you state that people can fall back into Hell by being bad in Heaven.!

should he choose to be bad out there, what's the big deal here?

Cmass wrote: Whoa. We have minds but no memories.!

What you have there is totally a clean mind (cleaned from your past life on earth) in totally new world - paradise. You will have no memories of your past life on earth but there, you will have new and fresh memories of what you see and what you feel, and of what you think and of what you wish to do. In short, you will lead a new life in paradise as if we were all new creation then like Adam and Eve but this time in paradise and not here on earth.

Cmass wrote: We have free will and can behave badly and get kicked out..!

So better behave yourself well in paradise.

Cmass wrote: .but can't earn our way back into Heaven. Hmmm. Interesting.!

From whom this you get this information from? Can't recall any of these words from my post?

Cmass wrote:While I don't think you have considered the ramifications of your statements, I hereby donate 5 tokens to you for your courage!

But you make your own conclusion and sometimes put your own words in my mouth. If you can only speak in Tagalog, I may not have any problem expressing myself with you guys and telling you the things that the Lord gave to us in verbatim text.

adlemi · Post by **adlemi** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:37 am

Cmass wrote: Is this from Biblical scripture or your personal, conversational experience with Jesus??

It is the latter.

Cmass wrote:Also, I note your liberal use of the word "nigh" which has many definitions. I assume you are using the one that means "close to" or nearby?

Can you please tell me how does this statement comes to you, "If you want to be saved, come and get nigh with Me"? What are the possible meanings of this statement? If you have a Pilipino friend besides you, kindly ask him the meaning of this original text for that one, "Kung gusto ninyong maligtas, halikayo’t lumapit sa Akin."

I think "close to" is better than "nearby".

adlemi · Post by **adlemi** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:49 am

Cmass wrote:Adlemi wrote:
Your Heavenly life I understand because you said that your memory will be erased.?

With respect to heavenly life, there is not much to discuss with since the Lord only gives limited knowledge about the life out there.

Cmass wrote:May I ask what kinds of things you do each day to keep loved ones from the fires of Hell?

Stand firm with my belief in God and seek His wisdom which I may use in persuading my loved ones to come to God. Pray to God to help me bring them to Him.

adlemi · Post by **adlemi** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:51 am

Cmass wrote:
Metatron wrote:
And what is the point of Hell since if God did the exact same thing to them,
Adlemi wrote:
Not too fast my friend, it will be quite different in hell for in there will come a time where you will fight or wrestle with someone who told you that there is no hell hence you believed him.
I am telling him there is no Hell. Yikes, is the ME he will be wrestling? I haven't wrestled since Jr. High & likely to get my arse wooped.....I better start practicing.

You bet he will.