Discussing Determinism
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Discussing Determinism
Post #1AI: Here is a summary of the provided transcript on Determinism from Crash Course Philosophy:
Chapter 1: Intro (The Oedipus Myth)
The episode opens with the Greek legend of Oedipus, who was prophesied to kill his father and marry his mother. Despite his parents abandoning him and Oedipus himself trying to flee his fate, the prophecy inevitably came true. This story introduces the central philosophical question: can we escape fate, or is everything determined?
Chapter 2: Are We Free?
The episode presents two conflicting views:
Libertarian Free Will: The belief that humans are capable of entirely free actions and could have done otherwise (the Principle of Alternate Possibilities).
Hard Determinism: The belief that every event is caused by a previous event, meaning no one could have acted differently.
The argument states you cannot rationally believe both.
Chapter 3: Hard Determinism vs. Libertarianism
Libertarians argue for agent causation (a mind can start a new chain of causality) versus event causation (physical events are determined). Their main argument is subjective: it feels like we are free.
Hard Determinists (like Baron D’Holbach) argue that all actions are the inevitable result of an unbroken chain of prior events. Humans are not special; we are part of the physical world.
Chapter 4 & 5: Reductionism and the Illusion of Choice
Reductionism argues that mental states are brain states, brain states are biological, biological states are physical, and the physical world is deterministic. There is no room for free will.
Our "decisions" (e.g., choosing oatmeal for breakfast) are actually the inevitable product of invisible causes: combinations of our beliefs, desires, and temperament. Change one factor, and the outcome changes. "Choices" are just the inevitable results of mental stuff combining.
Chapter 6: Conclusion
Hard determinism has uncomfortable implications:
The feeling of freedom is wrong.
Personal responsibility is thrown out.
We are all just "cogs in a machine."
Even your anger, boredom, or decision to keep watching this video are determined.
The episode ends by noting that next time, the series will explore possible middle ground between libertarianism and hard determinism.
The question has never been whether God is speaking. The question has always been whether there is anyone listening - anyone who has stopped hiding long enough to hear.
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Re: Discussing Determinism
Post #2Some thoughts which transcend the materialist view of determinism through a theistic lens.
1. The Nature of Reality
That which has always existed - no creation ex nihilo, no first cause.
Eternal beings (including entities having a human experience between pre-mortem and post mortem) are of this eternal ground.
These beings are near-omniscient, interconnected, and existed prior to human life.
2. The Determined Creation (Human Experience)
Pre-mortem "us" designed a fully determined universe.
Possible purpose: to explore whether a hidden Creator exists beyond themselves - and more fundamentally, to experience what it is like not to know, not to be near-omniscient, and even to experience death.
The system includes the illusion of free will, which feels real but is not.
3. God(s)
YHVH and Jesus represent the pre-mortem collective - "This is how WE operate as GOD."
YHVH never hid; I Am That I Am is fully revealed. Humans hide.
The Fall (Adam) was not the introduction of determinism but the loss of conscious divine accompaniment within the determined domain.
Jesus understood his determined existence, walked the path without hiding, and modeled genuine trust (e.g., going without money and being provided for through Gods handiwork).
His parables were necessary because humans could not understand direct truth due to not understanding the nature of the reality they were experiencing is a determined condition.
4. Heavens, Hells, and Post-Mortem States
Not permanent rewards or punishments.
Heavens = ongoing experience of those whose beliefs align with goodness accompanied with judgment. (still work to do)
Hells = ongoing experience of those whose beliefs align with badness accompanied with judgment. (still work to do)
Heavens and hells are the products of judgmentalism (or false judgement) and are not real in any permanent sense. They are products of an ongoing refusal to acknowledge we exist within a determined universe and this naturally leads to these types of ongoing experiences.
These state mirror individual preferences.
These states are determined by the individual and can change - through the humility of genuine understanding and acceptance.
Earth = first removal from prior existence.
Post-mortem heavens/hells = second removal.
Return to the prior is possible, bringing back the genuine human experience and the understanding and acceptance of the determined as an added quality.
Humility = accepting without judgment yet with understanding. It is determined, not chosen.
6. Love and Free Will
The gift of love is not free will.
The gift is genuine experience - the capacity to undergo, forget, struggle, stop hiding, and recognize what has always been true. Returning to the state Adam once had before "the fall".
Love is not a choice; it is what happens when hiding ceases.
The illusion of free will is given over to God as ones will is surrendered to God.
1. The Nature of Reality
That which has always existed - no creation ex nihilo, no first cause.
Eternal beings (including entities having a human experience between pre-mortem and post mortem) are of this eternal ground.
These beings are near-omniscient, interconnected, and existed prior to human life.
2. The Determined Creation (Human Experience)
Pre-mortem "us" designed a fully determined universe.
Possible purpose: to explore whether a hidden Creator exists beyond themselves - and more fundamentally, to experience what it is like not to know, not to be near-omniscient, and even to experience death.
The system includes the illusion of free will, which feels real but is not.
3. God(s)
YHVH and Jesus represent the pre-mortem collective - "This is how WE operate as GOD."
YHVH never hid; I Am That I Am is fully revealed. Humans hide.
The Fall (Adam) was not the introduction of determinism but the loss of conscious divine accompaniment within the determined domain.
Jesus understood his determined existence, walked the path without hiding, and modeled genuine trust (e.g., going without money and being provided for through Gods handiwork).
His parables were necessary because humans could not understand direct truth due to not understanding the nature of the reality they were experiencing is a determined condition.
4. Heavens, Hells, and Post-Mortem States
Not permanent rewards or punishments.
Heavens = ongoing experience of those whose beliefs align with goodness accompanied with judgment. (still work to do)
Hells = ongoing experience of those whose beliefs align with badness accompanied with judgment. (still work to do)
Heavens and hells are the products of judgmentalism (or false judgement) and are not real in any permanent sense. They are products of an ongoing refusal to acknowledge we exist within a determined universe and this naturally leads to these types of ongoing experiences.
These state mirror individual preferences.
These states are determined by the individual and can change - through the humility of genuine understanding and acceptance.
Earth = first removal from prior existence.
Post-mortem heavens/hells = second removal.
Return to the prior is possible, bringing back the genuine human experience and the understanding and acceptance of the determined as an added quality.
Humility = accepting without judgment yet with understanding. It is determined, not chosen.
6. Love and Free Will
The gift of love is not free will.
The gift is genuine experience - the capacity to undergo, forget, struggle, stop hiding, and recognize what has always been true. Returning to the state Adam once had before "the fall".
Love is not a choice; it is what happens when hiding ceases.
The illusion of free will is given over to God as ones will is surrendered to God.
The question has never been whether God is speaking. The question has always been whether there is anyone listening - anyone who has stopped hiding long enough to hear.
