What did Thomas really mean?

[placebofactor]

Thomas said to Jesus, my Lord and my God referring to him as both. Yet the Jehovah's Witnesses say he was speaking of Jesus as Lord and the Father as God. Why is that incorrect?

John 20:28, “And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.” Thomas’s words were a direct address to Jesus. The text explicitly states that Thomas answered and said unto him.

The antecedent of him is Jesus, who had just appeared to Thomas and invited him to touch His wounds, John 20:27. There is no grammatical or contextual indication that Thomas suddenly shifted his words to the Father.

Thomas uses one continuous declaration: “My Lord and my God.” The Greek text is “ὁ κύριός μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου," both titles are joined by καὶ (“and”), applied to the same person. There is no suggestion of a split reference that Lord = Jesus, and God = Father. The construction is emphatic, not divided.

In John 20:29, Jesus accepts Thomas’s confession: “Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed…” If Thomas had mistakenly addressed the Father, he would have corrected him. Instead, Jesus affirms Thomas’s belief, showing that the confession was directed to Him. The Jehovah’s Witnesses’ claim that Thomas meant “Jesus as Lord, the Father as God.” This is grammatically and contextually unsupported. The text itself, in both English and Greek, shows Thomas directly confessing the deity of Christ.

Your thoughts:

[Capbook]

[Replying to tygger too in post #5]

(1) Thomas had said (verse :25) that unless something happened he would “not believe.” What was it that Thomas refused to believe? Was it that he refused to believe that Jesus was equally God with the Father? There is certainly no hint of this before or after Thomas’ statement at John 20:28.

If the disciples had learned, upon seeing the resurrected Jesus, that he was God, certainly they would have indicated this! But notice, neither before nor after receiving Holy Spirit (:22) did they kneel or do any act of worship such as one would certainly do upon coming aware of being in the presence of God!

Notice that the disciples who had seen Jesus earlier did not tell Thomas that Jesus was God (:25)! This is an incredible oversight if they had really believed they had seen God! Certainly, if they had discovered that Jesus was really God when they saw him resurrected, they would have talked of nothing else!

If, on the other hand, they had already known that Jesus was God even before seeing his resurrected form, then Thomas, too, would have already known about it and certainly would not have meant: “Unless I see ... the print of nails [etc.] ... I will not believe [Jesus is God].”

No, the context of John 20:24, 25, and 29 shows that Thomas refused to believe that Jesus had been resurrected from the dead. (See footnote for John 20:8 in The NIV Study Bible, Zondervan, 1985: “John did not say what [the disciple who saw the empty tomb of Jesus] believed, but it must have been that Jesus was resurrected.” - Also see Barclay’s The Daily Study Bible Series: The Gospel of John, Revised Edition, Vol. 2, p. 267, and pp. 275, 276.)

Just because the other disciples did not say Jesus is God would mean that Thomas do not believe what he'd said to Jesus as "my Lord and my God." And it is significant why Jesus accepted the titles and did not say to Thomas, "don't call Me that" if indeed Jesus is not God.

[placebofactor]

...It’s really Jesus who was the doer, but through the Son of God. The Lord Jesus, through the Son...

Sorry, I think Jesus is the Son.

What is the Son, a man, or the Lord God?

He's the Lord God covered in flesh. Our Creator, Colossians 1:16, who stepped down from his place in heaven, Philippians 2:6-7-8. He humbled himself for a period of 33 1/2 years to bring us from the flames of hell to his loving arms. But if a person rejects his offer, that person will enter the period called, "Jacob's trouble." OneJack, when the 3 1/2 years of tribulation comes, it's coming from heaven. it begins when the four horsemen are loosed. It's Jesus that opens the seals and send the four on their way to earth. Now let me ask you, "Would you leave your bride in the middle of the worst period of destruction the world will ever encounter?" If you say yes, then there will be no rapture, and Jesus Bride will have to hide in the mountains until it's over. "I don't think so!"

[1213]

...It’s really Jesus who was the doer, but through the Son of God. The Lord Jesus, through the Son...

Sorry, I think Jesus is the Son.

What is the Son, a man, or the Lord God?

According to the Bible, he is a man:

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Tim. 2:5

[OneJack]

...It’s really Jesus who was the doer, but through the Son of God. The Lord Jesus, through the Son...

Sorry, I think Jesus is the Son.

What is the Son, a man, or the Lord God?

According to the Bible, he is a man:

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Tim. 2:5

Well, better come out in the open and speak up straight from the horse’s mouth. The bible actually says nothing because it’s just a book. We, who read the bible, are the ones who say many things about Jesus.

Paul was actually referring to the man, who was called the Son of God and to whom God gave His name Jesus, as the mediator between God and men. He knew Him by the name Jesus hence ‘the man Christ Jesus.’ Paul may have been unaware that the name Jesus was one of the seven names that God commanded to call the name of the Son. The seven names were Immanuel, Mighty God, and Eternal Father, Counselor, Wonderful, Prince of Peace, and Jesus (Isa 7:14; 9:6; Matt 1:216.

[Capbook]

...It’s really Jesus who was the doer, but through the Son of God. The Lord Jesus, through the Son...

Sorry, I think Jesus is the Son.

What is the Son, a man, or the Lord God?

According to the Bible, he is a man:

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Tim. 2:5

Yes, we believe Jesus was a man because He is in the nature/likeness of man (Phil 2:6) when here on earth and also in the nature of God.(Col 2:9)
The text you quote also does not say that Jesus is not God.

[OneJack]

...It’s really Jesus who was the doer, but through the Son of God. The Lord Jesus, through the Son...

Sorry, I think Jesus is the Son.

What is the Son, a man, or the Lord God?

According to the Bible, he is a man:

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Tim. 2:5

Yes, we believe Jesus was a man because He is in the nature/likeness of man (Phil 2:6) when here on earth and also in the nature of God.(Col 2:9)
The text you quote also does not say that Jesus is not God.

Take Isaiah 7:14; 9:6; Matt 1:21; and John 14:10-11, and you’ll come up to the conclusion that Jesus is the Almighty God who came in the flesh - the flesh of the man to whom Mary did give birth.

[Capbook]

Sorry, I think Jesus is the Son.

What is the Son, a man, or the Lord God?

According to the Bible, he is a man:

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Tim. 2:5

Yes, we believe Jesus was a man because He is in the nature/likeness of man (Phil 2:6) when here on earth and also in the nature of God.(Col 2:9)
The text you quote also does not say that Jesus is not God.

Take Isaiah 7:14; 9:6; Matt 1:21; and John 14:10-11, and you’ll come up to the conclusion that Jesus is the Almighty God who came in the flesh - the flesh of the man to whom Mary did give birth.

As you believe that the Almighty God is Jesus, may I know what is your take of what Daniel saw. May I know from you Who the "Ancient of Days" refer to? And Who the "Son of Man" refer to?
Are they two separate persons or just one person?

Dan 7:9  “I kept looking Until thrones were set up, And the Ancient of Days took His seat; His garment was white as snow, And the hair of His head like pure wool. His throne was ablaze with flames, Its wheels were a burning fire. 
Dan 7:13  “I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, And He came up to the Ancient of Days And was presented before Him. 
Dan 7:14  “And to Him was given dominion, Honor, and a kingdom, So that all the peoples, nations, and populations of all languages Might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion Which will not pass away; And His kingdom is one Which will not be destroyed. 

[tygger too]

[Replying to Capbook in post #21]

Capbook wrote: "Just because the other disciples did not say Jesus is God would mean that Thomas do not believe what he'd said to Jesus as "my Lord and my God." And it is significant why Jesus accepted the titles and did not say to Thomas, "don't call Me that" if indeed Jesus is not God."

..................................................................................................................................
As already proven above, Thomas' statement was not an address, but likely was a praise to the Father. See posts #5 - 8, 10.

[OneJack]

What is the Son, a man, or the Lord God?

According to the Bible, he is a man:

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Tim. 2:5

Yes, we believe Jesus was a man because He is in the nature/likeness of man (Phil 2:6) when here on earth and also in the nature of God.(Col 2:9)
The text you quote also does not say that Jesus is not God.

Take Isaiah 7:14; 9:6; Matt 1:21; and John 14:10-11, and you’ll come up to the conclusion that Jesus is the Almighty God who came in the flesh - the flesh of the man to whom Mary did give birth.

As you believe that the Almighty God is Jesus, may I know what is your take of what Daniel saw. May I know from you Who the "Ancient of Days" refer to? And Who the "Son of Man" refer to?
Are they two separate persons or just one person?

Dan 7:9  “I kept looking Until thrones were set up, And the Ancient of Days took His seat; His garment was white as snow, And the hair of His head like pure wool. His throne was ablaze with flames, Its wheels were a burning fire. 
Dan 7:13  “I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, And He came up to the Ancient of Days And was presented before Him. 
Dan 7:14  “And to Him was given dominion, Honor, and a kingdom, So that all the peoples, nations, and populations of all languages Might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion Which will not pass away; And His kingdom is one Which will not be destroyed. 

There is only one who is older than the days (time/s, seasons of time, etc.) - the Ancient of Days or the Lord God, who is before all things. Also, there is only one whose dominion is everlasting - the Almighty God whom Daniel saw in his vision through manifestation into a one like a son of man.

Therefore, Capbook, your opinion of two persons in the vision of Daniel is exactly the two manifestations of God.

[1213]

...
The text you quote also does not say that Jesus is not God.

Yes, but the Bible tells there is only one true God. So, if Jesus is the mediator between God and men, how could he be also the God?