every tear

[Athetotheist]

"He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
(Rev. 21:4)

Imagine yourself in heaven after the end of this world, where the throngs of the saved have been gathered to sing praises to Jesus for eternity.....

.....but someone you loved very deeply and dearly in this life is not there. That someone was loving, kind, humble and generous, but was just never convinced of the Jesus story......

.....so now you're in heaven forever and your dear one is not, and sometimes you stand alone at the edge of heaven looking out into the abyss and remembering.

As long as you remember, can every tear be wiped from your eyes? How? Must an act of divine amnesia be worked upon you to remove the sorrow from your heart by removing the loved one from your mind? Are you to simply put your memory and your love away in the eternal rejoicing? If so, is the eternal bliss still genuine?

[POI]

"He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
(Rev. 21:4)

Then it makes no sense for the Bible to state God will wipe their tears.

I think that implies there could be tears in the beginning, but God comforts the people and then they don't have tears anymore. And I believe that happens for example by explaining how the situation is good and no reason to be sorry.

This does not matter. You would be obligated to be in perfect bliss the second you reached Heaven. Otherwise, it is not Heaven, as Heaven would be completely absent of all sorrow and tears. You would only be filled with complete happiness. This happiness could not be genuine if you truly loved the ones in which your God decided to burn.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to 1213 in post #49]

Hmmm... ...maybe that depends on what is meant with his sacrifice. If you mean his death, forgiveness was possible before death of Jesus. Therefore death was not necessary for God to forgive.

Then how can you disagree with Jews, who don't accept Jesus as part of their sacrificial system?

The Christian Bible isn't even consistent with itself in that regard. Contrast:

"But that ye may know that the Son of Man hath power on earth to forgive sins,”— (then said He to the one sick with palsy) “Arise, take up thy bed and go unto thine house.”
(Matthew 9:6)

....with:

"for this is My blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins."
(Matthew 26:28)

And by the law almost all things are purged with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.
(Hebrews 9:22)

See the difference?

[1213]

[Replying to 1213 in post #49]

Hmmm... ...maybe that depends on what is meant with his sacrifice. If you mean his death, forgiveness was possible before death of Jesus. Therefore death was not necessary for God to forgive.

Then how can you disagree with Jews, who don't accept Jesus as part of their sacrificial system?

The Christian Bible isn't even consistent with itself in that regard. Contrast:

"But that ye may know that the Son of Man hath power on earth to forgive sins,”— (then said He to the one sick with palsy) “Arise, take up thy bed and go unto thine house.”
(Matthew 9:6)

....with:

"for this is My blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins."
(Matthew 26:28)

And by the law almost all things are purged with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.
(Hebrews 9:22)

See the difference?

And the blood was the wine. I think it is good to look first how the previous covenant was made:

Moses took half of the blood and put it in basins, and half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar. He took the book of the cove-nant and read it in the hearing of the people, and they said, "All that Yahweh has spoken will we do, and be obedient." Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, "Look, this is the blood of the covenant, which Yahweh has made with you concerning all these words."
Exod. 24:6-8

The previous covenant was sealed with blood of the animals. As the Bible shows, people broke up that covenant. And that is why God prepared a new one.

For finding fault with them, he said, "Behold, the days come," says the Lord, "That I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers, In the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; For they didn't continue in my covenant, And I disregarded them," says the Lord. "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days," says the Lord; "I will put my laws into their mind, I will also write them on their heart. I will be to them a God, And they will be to me a people. They will not teach every man his fellow citizen,{TR reads "neighbor" instead of "fellow citizen"} Every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' For all will know me, From the least of them to the great-est of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness. I will remember their sins and lawless deeds no more."
Heb. 8:8-12 (Jer. 31:31-34)

The new one was established through Jesus. And it was also sealed with blood, but this time the blood is the wine.

He took the cup, gave thanks, and gave to them, saying, "All of you drink it, for this is my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for many for the remission of sins.
Matt. 26:27-28

The new covenant offers forgiveness and also the change of heart. They did not drink his actual blood, nor was his actual blood required for to forgive. So, I don't think there is really any inconsistency.

Yahweh your God will circumcise your heart, and the heart of your seed, to love Yahweh your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, that you may live. Yahweh your God will put all these curses on your enemies, and on those who hate you, who persecuted you. You shall return and obey the voice of Yahweh, and do all his commandments which I command you this day. Yahweh your God will make you plenteous in all the work of your hand, in the fruit of your body, and in the fruit of your cattle, and in the fruit of your ground, for good: for Yahweh will again rejoice over you for good, as he rejoiced over your fa-thers;
Deut. 30:6-9

[1213]

... This happiness could not be genuine if you truly loved the ones in which your God decided to burn.

When you understand that the situation is really not bad, then you can be happy.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to 1213 in post #53]

For finding fault with them, he said, "Behold, the days come," says the Lord, "That I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers, In the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; For they didn't continue in my covenant, And I disregarded them," says the Lord. "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days," says the Lord; "I will put my laws into their mind, I will also write them on their heart. I will be to them a God, And they will be to me a people. They will not teach every man his fellow citizen,{TR reads "neighbor" instead of "fellow citizen"} Every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' For all will know me, From the least of them to the great-est of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness. I will remember their sins and lawless deeds no more."
Heb. 8:8-12 (Jer. 31:31-34)

The new one was established through Jesus. And it was also sealed with blood, but this time the blood is the wine.

The covenant in Jeremiah 31 has not been established. If it had been, everyone in Israel and Judah would "know the Lord" directly, which means that there wouldn't be any more preaching going on among them.

Also, Hebrews 8 includes a mistranslation of Jeremiah 31. The text in Hebrews which reads "and I disregarded them" actually says, "though I was a husband to them" in Jeremiah.

[Athetotheist]

... This happiness could not be genuine if you truly loved the ones in which your God decided to burn.

When you understand that the situation is really not bad, then you can be happy.

The loss of a deeply loved one to eternal torment "is really not bad"?

[1213]

The covenant in Jeremiah 31 has not been established. If it had been, everyone in Israel and Judah would "know the Lord" directly, which means that there wouldn't be any more preaching going on among them.

I think it has been established, because everyone who receives gets what is promised. But it does not mean that everyone will accept it. And that explains the conflict.

Also, Hebrews 8 includes a mistranslation of Jeremiah 31. The text in Hebrews which reads "and I disregarded them" actually says, "though I was a husband to them" in Jeremiah.

Translations I have say:

It will not be like the old covenant that I made with their ancestors when I delivered them from Egypt. For they violated that covenant, even though I was like a faithful husband to them," says the LORD.
Jer. 31:32

I think that is correct.

[1213]

... This happiness could not be genuine if you truly loved the ones in which your God decided to burn.

When you understand that the situation is really not bad, then you can be happy.

The loss of a deeply loved one to eternal torment "is really not bad"?

Yes, if you love someone, you let him go his own way and you are happy, when he gets what he wants.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to 1213 in post #58]

The loss of a deeply loved one to eternal torment "is really not bad"?

Yes, if you love someone, you let him go his own way and you are happy, when he gets what he wants.

You're going back to your "everyone-who-doesn't-believe-must-want-to-be-evil" argument which has already been refuted.

[POI]

... This happiness could not be genuine if you truly loved the ones in which your God decided to burn.

When you understand that the situation is really not bad, then you can be happy.

If your child was sent to burn/other, for eternity, you would immediately be filled with eternal bliss, once in Heaven?