Discrimination is good

[Greatest I Am]

I have debated discrimination from both sdes and one of my arguements even I don't like to answer but I eventualy do.
In a sence answering positively or negatively can be correct. One is more correct than the other.
Have Fun

You find yourself on the outside of a space ship.
Two space people are floating away by accident and you can only save the life of one.
They are the same distace away and all other conditions are identical.
Except that one of the space people is of the same race as you. The other is not.

Which one will you save, remembering that all other conditions are the same.

Regards
DL

P.S.
I did not use the polling function because I would like a brief explanation for your decision with your reply.

[Greatest I Am]

You haven't directly responded in reference to bi-racial individuals. What race should I choose? Race doesn't mean the same thing in 2007 as it meant years ago. I only have one black friend, also bi-racial and he has no black friends. Therefore, you may want to change the scenario a bit. We're answering it honestly and you seem to be looking for something else.

In your scenario, there doesn't seem to be a lot of time to process information. I know of many people who actually would pick the person of their race, but I'd like to think we are above that here, at least somewhat. The state has always told me that I have to be, for sake of profiling, the race of my father. My father is black. Yet, I am most familiar with my white mother and all of my friends are white. Every girlfriend I've ever had is white. If I made the pick based on race, why would I choose the person least familiar to me?

In a situation like this, no one would care if you came back with a person of your own race. But what if, when you got back to earth, you realized the person you saved was carrying a deadly disease, and the person you chose not to save, had bravely saved everyone by throwing him out into space, sacrificing himself. Then how good of a decision was it? Throw in factors and the situation changes. To choose to save a person just because they are of the same race has absolutely no honor in my opinion. This is why we have Affirmative Action. By your statement, we should expect people to pick the person of their own race. I do not. People of higher intellect should be above such factors as decisions. I see nothing positive about choosing one's own race as the qualifying factor. I picked my choice and it has nothing to do with race. It has everything to do with familiarity.

You say you would pick by familiarity. This is the same as picking your own race.
The point of this is that it is OK to be loyal to your own.
We should not feel guilt for loyalty.

Al the reverse discrimination laws have clouded our sence of loyalty.
Some were perhaps good in causing us to not discriminate where it was not necessary, but these laws are not designed, I hope to make us disloyal to our own.

Regards
DL

[mister_lee]

You haven't directly responded in reference to bi-racial individuals. What race should I choose? Race doesn't mean the same thing in 2007 as it meant years ago. I only have one black friend, also bi-racial and he has no black friends. Therefore, you may want to change the scenario a bit. We're answering it honestly and you seem to be looking for something else.

In your scenario, there doesn't seem to be a lot of time to process information. I know of many people who actually would pick the person of their race, but I'd like to think we are above that here, at least somewhat. The state has always told me that I have to be, for sake of profiling, the race of my father. My father is black. Yet, I am most familiar with my white mother and all of my friends are white. Every girlfriend I've ever had is white. If I made the pick based on race, why would I choose the person least familiar to me?

In a situation like this, no one would care if you came back with a person of your own race. But what if, when you got back to earth, you realized the person you saved was carrying a deadly disease, and the person you chose not to save, had bravely saved everyone by throwing him out into space, sacrificing himself. Then how good of a decision was it? Throw in factors and the situation changes. To choose to save a person just because they are of the same race has absolutely no honor in my opinion. This is why we have Affirmative Action. By your statement, we should expect people to pick the person of their own race. I do not. People of higher intellect should be above such factors as decisions. I see nothing positive about choosing one's own race as the qualifying factor. I picked my choice and it has nothing to do with race. It has everything to do with familiarity.

You say you would pick by familiarity. This is the same as picking your own race.
The point of this is that it is OK to be loyal to your own.
We should not feel guilt for loyalty.

Al the reverse discrimination laws have clouded our sence of loyalty.
Some were perhaps good in causing us to not discriminate where it was not necessary, but these laws are not designed, I hope to make us disloyal to our own.

Regards
DL

Then were primarily on the same page, at least in regards to picking in a situation like that.

But what reverse discrimination laws are we talking about? Affirmative action? That seems to be a major hot button, but I'm sure there are others. If you have any others in mind, briefly state them, and I'll take them under consideration.

I'm all for something like Affirmative Action, but I'm not necessarily happy with how it is enforced. It was put in place to prevent employers from overlooking candidates with better credintials, to pick a person he/she is more familiar with. However, what has happened, is that in some cases, when both candidates are equal, or even some cases where the minority is slightly less qualified, employers are picking the minority out of fear. I do not agree with this at all. On a more positive side of things, with more and more black business owners, the same rules will apply, I assume. If it doesn't then someone will file a lawsuit and it will hopefully change. In my opinion, the most qualified person should get the job in most cases. In other cases, if a candidate is a better fit, then perhaps it is ok to pick another.

All in all, it's an imperfect system, one I don't agree with in its current state, but I also believe something must be in place. We are not so far removed from the days of racial fireworks that we can put faith in employers. Stereotypes are so prevalent in our society that people too often get a poorly placed stigma on his/her head.

I agree loyalty is good, but I can't say disrimination ever is, no matter what person is being discriminated against. In our personal lives, to each his/her own. I absolutely discriminate, though it is not intentional. there are certain kinds of people I feel comfortable around. If someone doesn't fit that requirement, I'll converse with them, work with them, or whatever. But if I don't gel on a personal level, then it is what it is. I guess it depends in what ways we look at discrimination. I think I understand now what you are saying, and in terms of that, I can agree discrimination can be ok sometimes. But as a person that has felt discrimination, I don't think I personally could ever say discrimination is good. But that is from personal experiences. I don't like what it says to say such a thing, and thus I cannot concur as written. But your point is taken, and there is nothing wrong with it, to a certain point.

[Greatest I Am]

You haven't directly responded in reference to bi-racial individuals. What race should I choose? Race doesn't mean the same thing in 2007 as it meant years ago. I only have one black friend, also bi-racial and he has no black friends. Therefore, you may want to change the scenario a bit. We're answering it honestly and you seem to be looking for something else.

In your scenario, there doesn't seem to be a lot of time to process information. I know of many people who actually would pick the person of their race, but I'd like to think we are above that here, at least somewhat. The state has always told me that I have to be, for sake of profiling, the race of my father. My father is black. Yet, I am most familiar with my white mother and all of my friends are white. Every girlfriend I've ever had is white. If I made the pick based on race, why would I choose the person least familiar to me?

In a situation like this, no one would care if you came back with a person of your own race. But what if, when you got back to earth, you realized the person you saved was carrying a deadly disease, and the person you chose not to save, had bravely saved everyone by throwing him out into space, sacrificing himself. Then how good of a decision was it? Throw in factors and the situation changes. To choose to save a person just because they are of the same race has absolutely no honor in my opinion. This is why we have Affirmative Action. By your statement, we should expect people to pick the person of their own race. I do not. People of higher intellect should be above such factors as decisions. I see nothing positive about choosing one's own race as the qualifying factor. I picked my choice and it has nothing to do with race. It has everything to do with familiarity.

You say you would pick by familiarity. This is the same as picking your own race.
The point of this is that it is OK to be loyal to your own.
We should not feel guilt for loyalty.

Al the reverse discrimination laws have clouded our sence of loyalty.
Some were perhaps good in causing us to not discriminate where it was not necessary, but these laws are not designed, I hope to make us disloyal to our own.

Regards
DL

Then were primarily on the same page, at least in regards to picking in a situation like that.

But what reverse discrimination laws are we talking about? Affirmative action? That seems to be a major hot button, but I'm sure there are others. If you have any others in mind, briefly state them, and I'll take them under consideration.

I'm all for something like Affirmative Action, but I'm not necessarily happy with how it is enforced. It was put in place to prevent employers from overlooking candidates with better credintials, to pick a person he/she is more familiar with. However, what has happened, is that in some cases, when both candidates are equal, or even some cases where the minority is slightly less qualified, employers are picking the minority out of fear. I do not agree with this at all. On a more positive side of things, with more and more black business owners, the same rules will apply, I assume. If it doesn't then someone will file a lawsuit and it will hopefully change. In my opinion, the most qualified person should get the job in most cases. In other cases, if a candidate is a better fit, then perhaps it is ok to pick another.

All in all, it's an imperfect system, one I don't agree with in its current state, but I also believe something must be in place. We are not so far removed from the days of racial fireworks that we can put faith in employers. Stereotypes are so prevalent in our society that people too often get a poorly placed stigma on his/her head.

I agree loyalty is good, but I can't say disrimination ever is, no matter what person is being discriminated against. In our personal lives, to each his/her own. I absolutely discriminate, though it is not intentional. there are certain kinds of people I feel comfortable around. If someone doesn't fit that requirement, I'll converse with them, work with them, or whatever. But if I don't gel on a personal level, then it is what it is. I guess it depends in what ways we look at discrimination. I think I understand now what you are saying, and in terms of that, I can agree discrimination can be ok sometimes. But as a person that has felt discrimination, I don't think I personally could ever say discrimination is good. But that is from personal experiences. I don't like what it says to say such a thing, and thus I cannot concur as written. But your point is taken, and there is nothing wrong with it, to a certain point.

I note like most, you only use discrimination as a negative.
There is both positive discrimination and negative discrimination.

The example here is positive discrimination. The choice is not made because the other is different. The choice is made because of loyalty.

Affirmative action and reverse discrimination can be useful in some cases but as you say administration is key.

Small wars have been fought because of nepotism or racial preference and in these cases affirmative action may work.

Regards
DL

[mister_lee]

You haven't directly responded in reference to bi-racial individuals. What race should I choose? Race doesn't mean the same thing in 2007 as it meant years ago. I only have one black friend, also bi-racial and he has no black friends. Therefore, you may want to change the scenario a bit. We're answering it honestly and you seem to be looking for something else.

In your scenario, there doesn't seem to be a lot of time to process information. I know of many people who actually would pick the person of their race, but I'd like to think we are above that here, at least somewhat. The state has always told me that I have to be, for sake of profiling, the race of my father. My father is black. Yet, I am most familiar with my white mother and all of my friends are white. Every girlfriend I've ever had is white. If I made the pick based on race, why would I choose the person least familiar to me?

In a situation like this, no one would care if you came back with a person of your own race. But what if, when you got back to earth, you realized the person you saved was carrying a deadly disease, and the person you chose not to save, had bravely saved everyone by throwing him out into space, sacrificing himself. Then how good of a decision was it? Throw in factors and the situation changes. To choose to save a person just because they are of the same race has absolutely no honor in my opinion. This is why we have Affirmative Action. By your statement, we should expect people to pick the person of their own race. I do not. People of higher intellect should be above such factors as decisions. I see nothing positive about choosing one's own race as the qualifying factor. I picked my choice and it has nothing to do with race. It has everything to do with familiarity.

You say you would pick by familiarity. This is the same as picking your own race.
The point of this is that it is OK to be loyal to your own.
We should not feel guilt for loyalty.

Al the reverse discrimination laws have clouded our sence of loyalty.
Some were perhaps good in causing us to not discriminate where it was not necessary, but these laws are not designed, I hope to make us disloyal to our own.

Regards
DL

Then were primarily on the same page, at least in regards to picking in a situation like that.

But what reverse discrimination laws are we talking about? Affirmative action? That seems to be a major hot button, but I'm sure there are others. If you have any others in mind, briefly state them, and I'll take them under consideration.

I'm all for something like Affirmative Action, but I'm not necessarily happy with how it is enforced. It was put in place to prevent employers from overlooking candidates with better credintials, to pick a person he/she is more familiar with. However, what has happened, is that in some cases, when both candidates are equal, or even some cases where the minority is slightly less qualified, employers are picking the minority out of fear. I do not agree with this at all. On a more positive side of things, with more and more black business owners, the same rules will apply, I assume. If it doesn't then someone will file a lawsuit and it will hopefully change. In my opinion, the most qualified person should get the job in most cases. In other cases, if a candidate is a better fit, then perhaps it is ok to pick another.

All in all, it's an imperfect system, one I don't agree with in its current state, but I also believe something must be in place. We are not so far removed from the days of racial fireworks that we can put faith in employers. Stereotypes are so prevalent in our society that people too often get a poorly placed stigma on his/her head.

I agree loyalty is good, but I can't say disrimination ever is, no matter what person is being discriminated against. In our personal lives, to each his/her own. I absolutely discriminate, though it is not intentional. there are certain kinds of people I feel comfortable around. If someone doesn't fit that requirement, I'll converse with them, work with them, or whatever. But if I don't gel on a personal level, then it is what it is. I guess it depends in what ways we look at discrimination. I think I understand now what you are saying, and in terms of that, I can agree discrimination can be ok sometimes. But as a person that has felt discrimination, I don't think I personally could ever say discrimination is good. But that is from personal experiences. I don't like what it says to say such a thing, and thus I cannot concur as written. But your point is taken, and there is nothing wrong with it, to a certain point.

I note like most, you only use discrimination as a negative.
There is both positive discrimination and negative discrimination.

The example here is positive discrimination. The choice is not made because the other is different. The choice is made because of loyalty.

Affirmative action and reverse discrimination can be useful in some cases but as you say administration is key.

Small wars have been fought because of nepotism or racial preference and in these cases affirmative action may work.

Regards
DL

Fair enough, then I will agree that discrimination in certain situations can be positive. Nothing wrong with loyalty at times.

[Greatest I Am]

You haven't directly responded in reference to bi-racial individuals. What race should I choose? Race doesn't mean the same thing in 2007 as it meant years ago. I only have one black friend, also bi-racial and he has no black friends. Therefore, you may want to change the scenario a bit. We're answering it honestly and you seem to be looking for something else.

In your scenario, there doesn't seem to be a lot of time to process information. I know of many people who actually would pick the person of their race, but I'd like to think we are above that here, at least somewhat. The state has always told me that I have to be, for sake of profiling, the race of my father. My father is black. Yet, I am most familiar with my white mother and all of my friends are white. Every girlfriend I've ever had is white. If I made the pick based on race, why would I choose the person least familiar to me?

In a situation like this, no one would care if you came back with a person of your own race. But what if, when you got back to earth, you realized the person you saved was carrying a deadly disease, and the person you chose not to save, had bravely saved everyone by throwing him out into space, sacrificing himself. Then how good of a decision was it? Throw in factors and the situation changes. To choose to save a person just because they are of the same race has absolutely no honor in my opinion. This is why we have Affirmative Action. By your statement, we should expect people to pick the person of their own race. I do not. People of higher intellect should be above such factors as decisions. I see nothing positive about choosing one's own race as the qualifying factor. I picked my choice and it has nothing to do with race. It has everything to do with familiarity.

You say you would pick by familiarity. This is the same as picking your own race.
The point of this is that it is OK to be loyal to your own.
We should not feel guilt for loyalty.

Al the reverse discrimination laws have clouded our sence of loyalty.
Some were perhaps good in causing us to not discriminate where it was not necessary, but these laws are not designed, I hope to make us disloyal to our own.

Regards
DL

Then were primarily on the same page, at least in regards to picking in a situation like that.

But what reverse discrimination laws are we talking about? Affirmative action? That seems to be a major hot button, but I'm sure there are others. If you have any others in mind, briefly state them, and I'll take them under consideration.

I'm all for something like Affirmative Action, but I'm not necessarily happy with how it is enforced. It was put in place to prevent employers from overlooking candidates with better credintials, to pick a person he/she is more familiar with. However, what has happened, is that in some cases, when both candidates are equal, or even some cases where the minority is slightly less qualified, employers are picking the minority out of fear. I do not agree with this at all. On a more positive side of things, with more and more black business owners, the same rules will apply, I assume. If it doesn't then someone will file a lawsuit and it will hopefully change. In my opinion, the most qualified person should get the job in most cases. In other cases, if a candidate is a better fit, then perhaps it is ok to pick another.

All in all, it's an imperfect system, one I don't agree with in its current state, but I also believe something must be in place. We are not so far removed from the days of racial fireworks that we can put faith in employers. Stereotypes are so prevalent in our society that people too often get a poorly placed stigma on his/her head.

I agree loyalty is good, but I can't say disrimination ever is, no matter what person is being discriminated against. In our personal lives, to each his/her own. I absolutely discriminate, though it is not intentional. there are certain kinds of people I feel comfortable around. If someone doesn't fit that requirement, I'll converse with them, work with them, or whatever. But if I don't gel on a personal level, then it is what it is. I guess it depends in what ways we look at discrimination. I think I understand now what you are saying, and in terms of that, I can agree discrimination can be ok sometimes. But as a person that has felt discrimination, I don't think I personally could ever say discrimination is good. But that is from personal experiences. I don't like what it says to say such a thing, and thus I cannot concur as written. But your point is taken, and there is nothing wrong with it, to a certain point.

I note like most, you only use discrimination as a negative.
There is both positive discrimination and negative discrimination.

The example here is positive discrimination. The choice is not made because the other is different. The choice is made because of loyalty.

Affirmative action and reverse discrimination can be useful in some cases but as you say administration is key.

Small wars have been fought because of nepotism or racial preference and in these cases affirmative action may work.

Regards
DL

Fair enough, then I will agree that discrimination in certain situations can be positive. Nothing wrong with loyalty at times.

Thanks for confirmation early bird.

Regards
DL

[AClockWorkOrange]

ive never been much for being loyal to someone just becuase they are physicaly or geologically similiar to me.

this is why patriotism blows, but thats different.

im loyal to people i like and people with similiar ideals to myself.

interpersonal descrimination based on ideological differences doesnt strike me as a negative... that is literally making a decision.

descrimination based on variables such as eye color, nationality, lefty/right handedness is gibberish to me.

becuase i cannot choose between who will live, i would extend my arm, and see who was faster on the uptake

[joer]

Greatest I am,
It seems like you're leaning toward picking your own race as the most likely answer and imply that those who don't, aren't being honest, they are being politically correct. Given the imaginary conditions you set, I believe any imaginary answer would suffice.

You say all things are equal. They why would one choose one way or the other? All things aren't equal. There's a myriad of details that your asking everyone to ignore that would affect the decision in a real scenario. So since we are trying to imagine all things being equal what would be wrong with seeing them both, regardless of any differences, as your brother or sister in God. Or if you didn’t believe in God as equal human beings. And as such being equally important to you regardless of race? If that's the case what difference would it make who you choose., the scenario deems it necessary that one lives and one dies. Pray for guidance and discernment and make the best decision you can. If you’re a non-believer and wouldn’t pray no matter what, you just make the best decision you can based on the circumstances.

Bless you brother and come back into the ship.

I find myself with a position similar to AclockWorkOrange. Once I was in a remote area with some Mexican Indians in their village. One of the Huichol Indians had been in the US illegally in Arizona. Three times he was there and each time he was cheated and treated with disdain. As we were gathered around the wood fire in the fire pit this Indian expressed his aversion to mine being there as the only outsider and in anger related the stories of his excursions into the United States and how the people of that country mistreated him. He had worked many hours a day in the hot sun for food and water only, been promised a wage of $5 an hour only to receive half that much, been dropped off in the middle of the dessert after complaining about what was due him, turned into immigration after working for a month and a half with the promise of a fair paycheck at the end of the work.

Now I was a stranger in his country and he didn’t want me there. He was being quite rude and said, "If I came to your house you wouldn’t allow me in because your prejudiced and would'nt allow Indians in.” In response to his rudeness I said, “Yes I am prejudice, But not against the color of a man’s skin or his race or nationality,” I said, “I don’t like *ssholes!. And if someone was acting like one I don’t care if he’s white, black, green yellow or Indian I’d tell him to leave or that he was not welcome in my home.” I’m prejudiced against *ssholes!”

So I believe AclockWorkOrange raises another point that’s outside the simplistic scenario of “all things the same”. All things are never the same and discrimination in the form of discernment is used by us to help make those difficult decisions we must face in life.

I say Thank God for that to my believing brothers and sisters or
Thank goodness for that to my non-believing brothers and sisters.

[Greatest I Am]

[quote="joer"]Greatest I am,
It seems like you're leaning toward picking your own race as the most likely answer and imply that those who don't, aren't being honest, they are being politically correct. Given the imaginary conditions you set, I believe any imaginary answer would suffice.

You say all things are equal.

All things are equal except for race.

All I am showing here is that a positive motivation to save is better than no motivation at all.
Loyalty, if not allowed or without intellectualization, in and of itself is good.

Regards
DL

[joer]

Greatest I am wrote:

All I am showing here is that a positive motivation to save is better than no motivation at all.
Loyalty, if not allowed or without intellectualization, in and of itself is good.

O.K. That's Cool. That's a positive thing. And Loyalty can be to one's race, the human race, kindered in God, spirit, sex, age or whatever manner of relationship that it happens to manefest itself in.

Cool. I get it.

Cheers, my kindered spirit!

[Wintermute]

All I am saying is that we should recognize that it is a natural tendency and quite alright to chose our own peer group over others. This applies to any peer group. Your team, your town, your political party etc.
You can chose positive discrimination as a good without guilt.
Equal rights is good but if it interferes with my ability to chose my friends and family or peers to favor others then it becomes evil.

Regards
DL

What if there's a black guy and a white guy with blonde hair and blue eyes?

I have brown hair and brown eyes, so the black guy is my peer group.

I don't identify with characteristics like that.


Try this one:

You can save only one person. Both people are identical in every way. Therefore, discrimination based on absolutely nothing is good, right?