Jesus Christ has a God that he worships

[onewithhim]

Jesus said that we all must love Jehovah our God and worship only Him. He stated clearly that his Father was the only true God (John 17:3); he didn't say that we are the only true God. In many places in the Scriptures he calls the Father "my God."

"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3, KJV)

"Jesus saith unto her [Mary], Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father, but go to my brethren and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God. (John 20:17, KJV)

"At the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted: My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Mark 15:34, KJV)

"Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall no more go out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is New Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name." (Revelation 3:12, KJV)

I think Jesus wants us to recognize that his Father, Jehovah, is God, and he is God's Son. (John 10:36) What do you make of this?

[The Tanager]

The scripture doesn't say that Jesus had equality with God. Nowhere else in the Scriptures does it say that either. Philippians 2:6 is rendered like the following in other translations:

"Who, although he existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped." (NASB)

"Who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God something to be grasped." (NAB)

"Although he was like God in nature, he never even considered seizing the chance to be equal with God." (21st Century New Testament)

"Who, existing in the form of God, counted NOT the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped." (ASV)

"Though he was divine by nature, he did not set store upon equality with God." (Moffatt)

You get the idea. Jesus didn't even consider grasping equality with God, and we have discussed the fact that "grasp" means to seize something that one did not already have.

First, it's Greek, so it doesn't say "grasping". Second, grasp simply means to seize or hold something firmly. I can grasp a coffee mug I own. Third, each of those translations are of the template "Although he has the form/nature of God, he doesn't grasp equality." Why the connection? Why would Paul need to mention that Jesus wasn't grasping equality if he isn't saying Jesus could have laid claim to it?

[onewithhim]

The scripture doesn't say that Jesus had equality with God. Nowhere else in the Scriptures does it say that either. Philippians 2:6 is rendered like the following in other translations:

"Who, although he existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped." (NASB)

"Who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God something to be grasped." (NAB)

"Although he was like God in nature, he never even considered seizing the chance to be equal with God." (21st Century New Testament)

"Who, existing in the form of God, counted NOT the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped." (ASV)

"Though he was divine by nature, he did not set store upon equality with God." (Moffatt)

You get the idea. Jesus didn't even consider grasping equality with God, and we have discussed the fact that "grasp" means to seize something that one did not already have.

First, it's Greek, so it doesn't say "grasping". Second, grasp simply means to seize or hold something firmly. I can grasp a coffee mug I own. Third, each of those translations are of the template "Although he has the form/nature of God, he doesn't grasp equality." Why the connection? Why would Paul need to mention that Jesus wasn't grasping equality if he isn't saying Jesus could have laid claim to it?

Paul was making a contrast between a humble man and one not humble. Jesus is proclaimed to be humble and obedient. He wouldn't even consider being equal to the Father. Paul said: "Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus." (Phil.2: 3,5, KJV) Why would he talk about being in "lowliness of mind" and to think like Jesus, and then say that he considered himself equal to God?? Paul was presenting Jesus as lowly of mind, and certainly wouldn't say that he was equal to God.

One definition of "grasp" is to seize greedily; or, try to seize. (Oxford Dictionary) Greed is associated with the meaning of "grasp." Jesus wasn't greedy. Roget's 21st Century Thesaurus includes "grapple, seize, snatch, take hold of." Can you see Jesus grappling to seize equality with God?

[historia]

Can you see Jesus grappling to seize equality with God?

Was it possible for Jesus to seize equality with God?

[The Tanager]

Paul was making a contrast between a humble man and one not humble. Jesus is proclaimed to be humble and obedient. He wouldn't even consider being equal to the Father. Paul said: "Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus." (Phil.2: 3,5, KJV) Why would he talk about being in "lowliness of mind" and to think like Jesus, and then say that he considered himself equal to God?? Paul was presenting Jesus as lowly of mind, and certainly wouldn't say that he was equal to God.

One definition of "grasp" is to seize greedily; or, try to seize. (Oxford Dictionary) Greed is associated with the meaning of "grasp." Jesus wasn't greedy. Roget's 21st Century Thesaurus includes "grapple, seize, snatch, take hold of." Can you see Jesus grappling to seize equality with God?

I agree that Paul is telling us to be humble and using Jesus as the example. But is it really all that humble to claim you aren't equal to God? Most of the uber prideful people aren't doing that.

Paul says to be humble in pursuing the interests of others, not your own (v. 4). He then uses Jesus as an example of that aspect of humility. So, what he says about Jesus is going to show Jesus giving up his own interests and pursuing the interests of others. And the two things he mentions are (1) equality with God and (2) becoming human to die on the cross. Therefore, Paul is saying (1) is Jesus' own interest, that He doesn't pursue because He pursues (2) for our good. That is how Jesus is an example of humility.

And, yes, there are different meanings for 'grasp', but why think that one is meant here. Greed is often associated with grasp, but not always. Why think it is here?

[onewithhim]

Can you see Jesus grappling to seize equality with God?

Was it possible for Jesus to seize equality with God?

No. Paul said that to contrast Jesus' humble attitude with someone who is arrogant and unteachable. Jesus wouldn't even consider it, so let's not be greedy and unbending.

[onewithhim]

Paul was making a contrast between a humble man and one not humble. Jesus is proclaimed to be humble and obedient. He wouldn't even consider being equal to the Father. Paul said: "Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus." (Phil.2: 3,5, KJV) Why would he talk about being in "lowliness of mind" and to think like Jesus, and then say that he considered himself equal to God?? Paul was presenting Jesus as lowly of mind, and certainly wouldn't say that he was equal to God.

One definition of "grasp" is to seize greedily; or, try to seize. (Oxford Dictionary) Greed is associated with the meaning of "grasp." Jesus wasn't greedy. Roget's 21st Century Thesaurus includes "grapple, seize, snatch, take hold of." Can you see Jesus grappling to seize equality with God?

I agree that Paul is telling us to be humble and using Jesus as the example. But is it really all that humble to claim you aren't equal to God? Most of the uber prideful people aren't doing that.

Paul says to be humble in pursuing the interests of others, not your own (v. 4). He then uses Jesus as an example of that aspect of humility. So, what he says about Jesus is going to show Jesus giving up his own interests and pursuing the interests of others. And the two things he mentions are (1) equality with God and (2) becoming human to die on the cross. Therefore, Paul is saying (1) is Jesus' own interest, that He doesn't pursue because He pursues (2) for our good. That is how Jesus is an example of humility.

And, yes, there are different meanings for 'grasp', but why think that one is meant here. Greed is often associated with grasp, but not always. Why think it is here?

It fits with what it says about Jesus' humility. The context means a lot. If he was equal with God he would not need to prove anything to God the way that he did, losing his life to show that a man could indeed remain faithful. Because he did remain faithful and carried out the will of God (not his own) God gave him a higher position than what he had before coming to earth (Philippians 2: 8,9). He is clearly not equal with God. God GAVE him everything, everything that he did not have before.

[historia]

Can you see Jesus grappling to seize equality with God?

Was it possible for Jesus to seize equality with God?

No. Paul said that to contrast Jesus' humble attitude with someone who is arrogant and unteachable. Jesus wouldn't even consider it, so let's not be greedy and unbending.

But this is precisely the problem with your interpretation. For Jesus to not even consider doing something that would have been impossible for him to achieve is not a good example of a humble attitude.

Likewise, it's not possible for me to fly to the top of the Empire State Building by flapping my arms. Would you say, "Be humble like historia, who didn't even consider flying to the top of the Empire State Building by flapping his arms, but instead took the elevator to get to the top." That argument doesn't make any sense, right?

[JehovahsWitness]

But this is precisely the problem with your interpretation. For Jesus to not even consider doing something that would have been impossible for him to achieve is not a good example of a humble attitude.

Paul was not saying Jesus refrained from doing the impossible. He did not specify what aspect of "eqality" he was alluding to. To conclude Paul was speaking about absolute eqality in every sense is premature. Paul did not say Jesus refrained, for example from seeking equal power with the Almighty...

We do have at least an indication of what Paul was alluding to in verses 8 and 9, since he contrasts what Jesus did not do with what he did do. In verse 8 he speaks about humbly taking a slaves form (a position of servitude) and in verse 9 Paul explains that paradoxically , the reward for accepting to be lowered was that "God exalted him to a superior position" He at no point speaks about a use or misude of power, rather of submitting to a changes in position.

So it seems the issue up for grabs (pun intended) was not eqaliity of power and age (incontestable) but rank and position.

An illiterate pauper can USURP a King if he can successfully manipulate the situation. He (the pauper) may not have the blue blood, he may not have the legal right, he may be inferior in every conceivable way, but he can attempt to sit on the throne of England itself, if he can stage a coup.

That is for all intents and purposes, what Satan the Devil did, he coveted God's position and instigated an attempted take-over. So reading Paul's words to mean Jesus humbly refrained from "grabbing" /seizing the ultimate position of rulership, is arguably more in harmony with the immediate context than that Jesus humbly did not misuse or abuse a position he already had.

USURP verb

take (a position of power or importance) illegally or by force.

[historia]

Paul was not saying Jesus refrained from doing the impossible.

I agree. It's onewithhim who is implying that. Recall my earlier question and her reply:

Was it possible for Jesus to seize equality with God?

No.

Before we get to the rest of your argument, let me clarify this point, as it seems like you disagree with onewithhim here:

Was it possible for Jesus to seize equality with God?

[JehovahsWitness]

Was it possible for Jesus to seize equality with God?

That depends on what you mean by "equality"