Creation Contradiction Proves Errancy

[JoeMama]

In the animal Creation passages, (Genesis 1:25-26), God already had made the animals, but later (Genesis 2:18-19) he said that making the animals was something he planned to do.

If these are contradictory, does that mean the Bible is not without error?

[Difflugia]

In the animal Creation passages, (Genesis 1:25-26), God already had made the animals, but later (Genesis 2:18-19) he said that making the animals was something he planned to do.

I don't believe that is contradictory.

In Genesis 1:25-26, God made animals, then God made men. In Genesis 2:18-19, the Man had already been created (in 2:7), then God made the animals. If these are historical narratives, at most one can be correct and at least one is false. Your explanation doesn't address that at all.

Were people or animals created first?

[TRANSPONDER]

In the animal Creation passages, (Genesis 1:25-26), God already had made the animals, but later (Genesis 2:18-19) he said that making the animals was something he planned to do.

I don't believe that is contradictory.

In Genesis 1:25-26, God made animals, then God made men. In Genesis 2:18-19, the Man had already been created (in 2:7), then God made the animals. If these are historical narratives, at most one can be correct and at least one is false. Your explanation doesn't address that at all.

Were people or animals created first?

Yeah.Thing is, I put on my Theist hat (after scraping all the egg off) and it tells me that it only says what happened but not the particular order; Genesis 1 does. So one can explain it by fitting Gen 2 to Gen 1. The contradictions there are not so much with Gen 2 but with Science.

It would be a fun Xperiment (the Centurion hath just fell upon his spear)for me to Interleave the two accounts to 'weave them together' which should get me an award from the Templeton foundation.


Ge 1. First day 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

2nd day 6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.

Gen 2.2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.
3rd day 11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

4th day 14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

5th day 20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.
24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 2. 1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.

Gen 2 10 A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters. 11 The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 (The gold of that land is good; aromatic resin[d] and onyx are also there.) 13 The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush.[e] 14 The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Ashur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.
15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”
Gen 2. 18 The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”
19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.
But for Adam[f] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs[g] and then closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib[h] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
Possibly the 5th but probably the 6th day
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

Gen 2.2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

Gen 2. 4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.
5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the Lord God formed a man[c] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

Gen 2.2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

[Difflugia]

Yeah.Thing is, I put on my Theist hat (after scraping all the egg off) and it tells me that it only says what happened but not the particular order;

A series of wayyiqtol (or "vav consecutive") verbs is read as a narrative sequence, "this, then this, then this, then this...." Both Genesis 1:1-2:3 and 2:6-20b are unbroken vav consecutive narratives. "But for man, there was not a suitable helper for him," begins the third sequence. The order of the events is in a particular order and the order can't be changed without misunderstanding or misrepresenting the text.

At that point, it's no longer a "theist hat," but a dunce cap.

[TRANSPONDER]

Yeah.Thing is, I put on my Theist hat (after scraping all the egg off) and it tells me that it only says what happened but not the particular order;

A series of wayyiqtol (or "vav consecutive") verbs is read as a narrative sequence, "this, then this, then this, then this...." Both Genesis 1:1-2:3 and 2:6-20b are unbroken vav consecutive narratives. "But for man, there was not a suitable helper for him," begins the third sequence. The order of the events is in a particular order and the order can't be changed without misunderstanding or misrepresenting the text.

At that point, it's no longer a "theist hat," but a dunce cap.

Well, yes. Just as in a Sequence like in 1.Ccr. list of resurrection appearances implies a chronological order.

I'm just saying that is how the Apologists could argue it., and never mind the Hebrew grammar.After all the language of God is King James English.

I'ts just that I prefer to argue that Gen 1 is refuted by science not by a contradiction in Gen 2 which Bible Believers would 'weave together'just as I did, if they didn't just dismiss it wit: "You don't understand it properly".

The Theist hat differs from a dunces' cap in that, like the sorting hat it talks..in Leslie Phillips' voice...

"Hmmm...interesting. Perhaps one of the outlier sects.."

"No, No, Baptist"

"Really? How about Televangelism,I'm sure you'd do well, there..money, power, sex.."

"No! No! Baptist!"

"Your Learjet would make the Lolita Express look like a Greyhound bus."

"No! No! I don't want that!"

"How about the Jehoover's Witnesses then?"

"That's even worse! Baptist! Baptist"

"What about the Pentecostalists? Plenty of Tongues there.."

No! No! No babble!"

"There's always the Mor..."

"Baptist! Baptist! Baptist!"

"Oh very well, then, Baptist it is..."

[Difflugia]

Well, yes. Just as in a Sequence like in 1.Ccr. list of resurrection appearances implies a chronological order.

I understand what you're saying farther down and I'm not arguing with your reasoning there. That said, the sequence in 1 Cor. 15 isn't implied. The verb form makes it explicit. In Ancient Greek, the aorist tense is generally used for a narrative sequence. The chronological order is implied in English because English lacks such a narrative verb form, but it's built into Hebrew and Greek.

[TRANSPONDER]

Well, yes. Just as in a Sequence like in 1.Ccr. list of resurrection appearances implies a chronological order.

I understand what you're saying farther down and I'm not arguing with your reasoning there. That said, the sequence in 1 Cor. 15 isn't implied. The verb form makes it explicit. In Ancient Greek, the aorist tense is generally used for a narrative sequence. The chronological order is implied in English because English lacks such a narrative verb form, but it's built into Hebrew and Greek.

I agree, and thank you for the information. I'm just saying why I tend to leave that one alone; I can see what's coming. Though I can now try your argument against Gen 2, and the apologists will just have to say 'They wrote differently back then'. Denial comes in large packs.

[Capbook]

In the animal Creation passages, (Genesis 1:25-26), God already had made the animals, but later (Genesis 2:18-19) he said that making the animals was something he planned to do.

I don't believe that is contradictory.

In Genesis 1:25-26, God made animals, then God made men. In Genesis 2:18-19, the Man had already been created (in 2:7), then God made the animals. If these are historical narratives, at most one can be correct and at least one is false. Your explanation doesn't address that at all.

Were people or animals created first?

On the sixth day of creation God created first the animal and the Adam.
on Gen 2:18 God plan to create a woman. On verse 19 God already created the animals before Adam and give additional information that animals were created out of the ground just like Adam.
Let me cite Barne's Notes regarding that verse;

Genesis 2:19
And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

Here, as in several previous instances (Gen 1:5; 2:4,8-9), the narrative reverts to the earlier part of the sixth day.
(from Barnes' Notes, Electronic Database Copyright © 1997, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

[Capbook]

In the animal Creation passages, (Genesis 1:25-26), God already had made the animals, but later (Genesis 2:18-19) he said that making the animals was something he planned to do.

I don't believe that is contradictory.

In Genesis 1:25-26, God made animals, then God made men. In Genesis 2:18-19, the Man had already been created (in 2:7), then God made the animals. If these are historical narratives, at most one can be correct and at least one is false. Your explanation doesn't address that at all.

Were people or animals created first?

Yeah.Thing is, I put on my Theist hat (after scraping all the egg off) and it tells me that it only says what happened but not the particular order; Genesis 1 does. So one can explain it by fitting Gen 2 to Gen 1. The contradictions there are not so much with Gen 2 but with Science.

It would be a fun Xperiment (the Centurion hath just fell upon his spear)for me to Interleave the two accounts to 'weave them together' which should get me an award from the Templeton foundation.


Ge 1. First day 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

2nd day 6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.

Gen 2.2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.
3rd day 11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

4th day 14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

5th day 20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.
24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 2. 1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.

Gen 2 10 A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters. 11 The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 (The gold of that land is good; aromatic resin[d] and onyx are also there.) 13 The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush.[e] 14 The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Ashur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.
15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”
Gen 2. 18 The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”
19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.
But for Adam[f] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs[g] and then closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib[h] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
Possibly the 5th but probably the 6th day
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

Gen 2.2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

Gen 2. 4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.
5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the Lord God formed a man[c] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

Gen 2.2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

Yes God sees his creations on the sixth day and says "very good". Unlike other days whom He says "good"
And on the seventh day God [b]finished[/b] the work He had been doing.
And I believed all others verses men might see as contradictions are only describing the week of creation as God finished His work on the seventh day of creation.

[Capbook]

In the animal Creation passages, (Genesis 1:25-26), God already had made the animals, but later (Genesis 2:18-19) he said that making the animals was something he planned to do.

If these are contradictory, does that mean the Bible is not without error?

I don't believe that is contradictory.
It mentions of the same day of creation, first the animals and then Adam.
In Gen 2:19 it mentions of out of the ground animals were created just like Adam.
And in verse 18 I believe you are confused of what God is going to make.
May I quote commentary from Adam Clark;

Genesis 2:18
And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
[It is not good that the man should be alone]
; only himself, I will make him a help meet for him;
, "a help, a counterpart of himself," one formed from him, and a perfect resemblance of his person. If the word be rendered scrupulously literally, it signifies one like, or as himself, standing opposite to or before him. And this implies that the woman was to be a perfect resemblance of the man possessing neither inferiority nor superiority but being in all things like and equal to himself. As man was made a social creature, it was not proper that he should be alone; for to be alone, i.e. without a matrimonial companion, was not good.

(from Adam Clarke's Commentary, Electronic Database. Copyright © 1996, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

But that doesn't even address the matter of contradiction in Genesis. Contradiction within Genesis in fact not being the problem, but being contradicted by science. We seem to have a strawman argument or a misdirection presented by you as the actual argument when it is that Genesis is factually wrong, not contradictory of itself.

Genesis is factually wrong because of science? Where there were no scientist on that time to observe, analyze, study and conclude base on actual evidence which you admitted incomplete.

[Difflugia]

On the sixth day of creation God created first the animal and the Adam.
on Gen 2:18 God plan to create a woman. On verse 19 God already created the animals before Adam and give additional information that animals were created out of the ground just like Adam.

No. Verse 19 happened after verse 18. That's the vav consecutive verb form I mentioned earlier. In verse 7, God created mankind. All events between there and verse 19 happened sequentially.

Let me cite Barne's Notes regarding that verse;

Genesis 2:19
And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

Here, as in several previous instances (Gen 1:5; 2:4,8-9), the narrative reverts to the earlier part of the sixth day.
(from Barnes' Notes, Electronic Database Copyright © 1997, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

Neither you nor Barnes offers any reason to think that the narrative somehow "reverts" to an earlier point. To claim such is to change the text, which obviously allows one to harmonize anything.

According to the text, however, Yahweh said, "It isn't good that the man is alone. I'll make him a helper." Then Yahweh created every beast of the field and bird of the skies. Then He brought them to the man to name them.