God knows who He favors, God knows who He has chosen

[Stewardofthemystery]

To be saved by God’s grace means you have been saved by God’s favor. So God favors some over others. Jacob He loved, but Esau He hated.

And some think they have chosen God, but that means nothing if God has not chosen them. It is God who chooses whom He favors, it is God who chooses to have mercy on whomsoever He will. God has chosen His elect even before the world began.

In this we can see and understand there is no room for boasting in works on our part for being chosen by God, and saved by His grace.

Ephesians 1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

[Stewardofthemystery]

Tanager said “Why not interpret that as God knowing who will freely choose Him? And what do you make of Rev 3:5, when Jesus notes that names can be erased from the book of life?(end quote)

God knows who will choose Him and who will also fall away from the faith. But it is God who wrote the names of the Living in His book of life from the foundation of the world.

The reason some are blotted out of the book of life is the same reason Judas fell away, it was because of sin.

But you see in the 12 apostles it was Jesus who chose them, even Judas who Jesus knew beforehand would betray him. All this would done to fulfill Gods will and purpose in prophecy.

John 6:70
Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

John 13:18
I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.

They did not choose Jesus first, they were chosen first by God from the foundation of the world.

John 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Paul also confessed he was chosen and called to be an apostle according to God’s will.

Romans 1:1
Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

1 Corinthians 1:1
Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2 Corinthians 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

Galatians 1:1
Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)

Ephesians 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Colossians 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother,

1 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;

2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,


God is the one who chooses and anoints His Kingdom of kings and priests, not men.

John 1:13
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

[The Tanager]

God knows who will choose Him and who will also fall away from the faith. But it is God who wrote the names of the Living in His book of life from the foundation of the world.

The reason some are blotted out of the book of life is the same reason Judas fell away, it was because of sin.

So, God predestined some to individual salvation and wrote those names in the book of life and then, because of their sin, they lost the salvation God wanted for them and He had to take their names out? Doesn’t this go against your view that God gets everything He wants? Why wouldn’t God already know of their sin and never write their name there in the first place?

But you see in the 12 apostles it was Jesus who chose them, even Judas who Jesus knew beforehand would betray him. All this would done to fulfill Gods will and purpose in prophecy.

Yes, which would mean Jesus’ choosing them was not about predestining them to individual salvation, but about being one of the original 12 disciples that followed him and went around. That 12 included one who ends up damned in your belief, right? If so, that choice can’t be individual election to salvation.

Paul also confessed he was chosen and called to be an apostle according to God’s will.

Romans 1:1
Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

1 Corinthians 1:1
Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2 Corinthians 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

Galatians 1:1
Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)

Ephesians 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Colossians 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother,

1 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;

2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

Yes, Paul was chosen by God to encounter Jesus’ resurrected body (that’s why Paul includes himself when sharing the creed in 1 Cor 15) and also chosen to take His message to others; this is what it seems to mean to be an apostle. Having Jesus appear to you isn’t individual salvation. Being sent to spread Jesus’ message as a missionary isn’t individual salvation.

God is the one who chooses and anoints His Kingdom of kings and priests, not men.

John 1:13
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Okay, so the two verses (1:11-12) right before this says “He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:“. How do you become a child of God here? You receive Jesus and believe in His name. If your view is true, then why doesn’t it say something like “But as many as He had already determined would be saved, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those He chose before the foundation of the world: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God’s choice to save some and damn others”?

My interpretation seems to fit nicer with what is actually said. How do people become a child of God? Jesus came and some believed and received Him and some didn’t. Those that did became a child of God. It is about receiving and believing Jesus as the Word and the Light, not being born a Jew, not by all the good one has done, or other methods humans may want. God chooses the way of salvation.

[Stewardofthemystery]

God foreknows those whom He has predestined to salvation.

Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Just as God told Jeremiah that He knew him before Jeremiah was even in the womb.

Jeremiah 1:5
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

To foreknow is to also foreordain, as is also shown in Jesus…

1 Peter 1:20
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

So understanding this, God foreknows those who are His who He has predestined to salvation. But there will be those who think they are saved, but Jesus will tell them I know you not.

Matthew 25:12
But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

Luke 13:25
When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

Luke 13:27
But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

[Stewardofthemystery]

It can’t get any clearer than this…

2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, [i]because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation [/i]through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Peace

[The Tanager]

Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

I’ve already addressed this. The context is Christians experiencing suffering, not individual salvation. We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God (v. 28). Why? Because those God foreknew would experience suffering for following Him he predestined to be conformed to Jesus’ image. This is a statement of God using suffering inflicted on Christians for a different purpose, to make them more like Jesus.

1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

This fits with corporate election and individual election, so it’s not a verse that decides between the two. Those who chose to be found in Christ are set apart by the Spirit for obedience and the sprinkling of Jesus’ blood in mercy.

Just as God told Jeremiah that He knew him before Jeremiah was even in the womb.

Jeremiah 1:5
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Jeremiah was chosen to be a prophet, not chosen to be individually saved.

To foreknow is to also foreordain, as is also shown in Jesus…

1 Peter 1:20
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

You don’t think Jesus was predestined to salvation, do you? Jesus is the bringer of salvation, not one who could be saved or damned.

So understanding this, God foreknows those who are His who He has predestined to salvation. But there will be those who think they are saved, but Jesus will tell them I know you not.

Matthew 25:12
But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

Luke 13:25
When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

Luke 13:27
But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

We agree some will think they are saved that aren’t; that is what these verses say. It doesn’t say there are those who will have believed and received Jesus but Jesus then turns around and say “Ah, but God didn’t choose you, so sorry.”

It can’t get any clearer than this…

2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, [i]because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation [/i]through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

This fits corporate election just as well as individual election (if you only look at the verse itself). But let’s use good hermeneutics and discuss the context. What do you make of 2 Thess 2:12? All those who have not believed the truth, but delighted in evil will be condemned. Why doesn’t it say “all those God chose for damnation will be condemned?” That would be a clear teaching of individual predestination. I only think corporate election makes sense of this whole passage. God chose those in Christ from the beginning for salvation (13). Therefore, hold on to what we taught (15). Individual predestination doesn’t allow for us not to hold on to what we taught or let go.

[Stewardofthemystery]

Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

I’ve already addressed this. The context is Christians experiencing suffering, not individual salvation. We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God (v. 28). Why? Because those God foreknew would experience suffering for following Him he predestined to be conformed to Jesus’ image. This is a statement of God using suffering inflicted on Christians for a different purpose, to make them more like Jesus.

1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

This fits with corporate election and individual election, so it’s not a verse that decides between the two. Those who chose to be found in Christ are set apart by the Spirit for obedience and the sprinkling of Jesus’ blood in mercy.

Just as God told Jeremiah that He knew him before Jeremiah was even in the womb.

Jeremiah 1:5
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Jeremiah was chosen to be a prophet, not chosen to be individually saved.

To foreknow is to also foreordain, as is also shown in Jesus…

1 Peter 1:20
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

You don’t think Jesus was predestined to salvation, do you? Jesus is the bringer of salvation, not one who could be saved or damned.

So understanding this, God foreknows those who are His who He has predestined to salvation. But there will be those who think they are saved, but Jesus will tell them I know you not.

Matthew 25:12
But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

Luke 13:25
When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

Luke 13:27
But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

We agree some will think they are saved that aren’t; that is what these verses say. It doesn’t say there are those who will have believed and received Jesus but Jesus then turns around and say “Ah, but God didn’t choose you, so sorry.”

It can’t get any clearer than this…

2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, [i]because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation [/i]through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

This fits corporate election just as well as individual election (if you only look at the verse itself). But let’s use good hermeneutics and discuss the context. What do you make of 2 Thess 2:12? All those who have not believed the truth, but delighted in evil will be condemned. Why doesn’t it say “all those God chose for damnation will be condemned?” That would be a clear teaching of individual predestination. I only think corporate election makes sense of this whole passage. God chose those in Christ from the beginning for salvation (13). Therefore, hold on to what we taught (15). Individual predestination doesn’t allow for us not to hold on to what we taught or let go.

I didn’t direct that post to you specifically for you to address. You have already given your opinion on some of those verses, no need to repeat. Everybody is welcome to their opinion, but the proper interpretation belongs to God and to those whom He reveals it to by His Spirit.

Peace

[myth-one.com]

It can’t get any clearer than this…

2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, [i]because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation [/i]through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Peace

Yes, God knew from the beginning that He would chose to grant everlasting spiritual bodied life to those humans who believe in Jesus as their Savior from the wages of their sins!

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

That's as far as predestination goes.

[Stewardofthemystery]

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

[Eddie Ramos]

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

One question at the moment for you. What role (if any) according to the Bible, did each person play in becoming born again?

[Eddie Ramos]

To be saved by God’s grace means you have been saved by God’s favor. So God favors some over others. Jacob He loved, but Esau He hated.

And some think they have chosen God, but that means nothing if God has not chosen them. It is God who chooses whom He favors, it is God who chooses to have mercy on whomsoever He will. God has chosen His elect even before the world began.

In this we can see and understand there is no room for boasting in works on our part for being chosen by God, and saved by His grace.

Ephesians 1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

What a hard cruel being described above.

The Bible actually says God so loved the world.

It says it’s not His will that any perish

It says that at points in time many will fall away from the faith,

It’s also clear that God’s will is not done on the earth. The post I’m answering is an example.

Hello Mae.
The truth of the scriptures can be very offensive when we have a gospel that we may be holding dear, yet doesn't agree with the scripotures as a whole. For example, you are correct in that John 3:16 says that God so loved the world, but the same Bible says that God hates the sinner and not just the sin, like many want to believe.

Romans 9:13 (KJV 1900)
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Psalm 11:5 (KJV 1900)
The LORD trieth the righteous:
But the wicked and HIM that loveth violence his soul hateth.

Hosea 9:15 (KJV 1900)
All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated THEM:
For the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house,
I will love them no more:
All their princes are revolters.

Psalm 5:5 (KJV 1900)
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight:
Thou hatest all WORKERS of iniquity.

So, truth isn't determined based on how many more of one set of scriptures there are in the Bible, versus another. Rather, truth is determined based on how all these apparently contradicting verses AGREE with one another as 1 cohesive truth. Only then will be be able to be sure that we have found that one truth within the pages of the Bible.

1 John 5:8 (KJV 1900)
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

So, if the Bible disagrees with any doctrine you or I hold to be true, then we have to ask why it's disagreeing with us, and then we must all humbly seek to find harmony (biblical agreement), even if thast means discarding what we once held dearly as truth.

Proverbs 13:18 (KJV 1900)
Poverty and shame shall be to him that refuseth instruction:
But he that regardeth reproof shall be honoured.

If we study God's love and his hatred of man, we learn that God's hatred is not like our hatred (which is evil because we're sinners). God's love is expressed by John 3:16.

John 3:16 (KJV 1900)
For God SO loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The word "SO" is often read to mean God loved the world SO MUCH that..., but this word is also translated as "in this manner".

"For God in this manner loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son"

In other words, God's love is directly related to his work of atonement.

1 John 4:10 (KJV 1900)
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

The love of God equated to his propitiation for our sins. But John 3:16 says that he loved the world, doesn't that make it plain as day to undrstand? Well, not until we factor in the hatred of God towards sinners. When we study the word "world" used in John 3:16, we can se that it doesn't always mean every individual in the world, but can also mean certain individual within the world (Jn 1:10, Jn 7:7, Jn 12:19, Jn 14:17). This means that we as the reader can't be the one who determines how the word "world" in any particular verse is to be deifined, but we have to let the context of the whole Bible define it for us.

Well, God's hatred is the oposite of God's love. This means that the atonement was not for every individual that ever existed, but only for those who were loved. The Bible calls these individuals, the beloved, or the elect of God.

1 John 4:11 (KJV 1900)
Beloved, if God so loved US, we ought also to love one another.

BUt this may only sound cruel if we don't look at the whole picture. When sin entered intot his world, all of mankind was condemend to death, which is the payment for sin. But rather that justly letting mankind perish for their sins, God decided to have mercy on some. God's justice judged and condemend mankind for their sin, but God's mercy decided to not let everyone perish. So, mankind's condemnation was not God's doing, it was man's own doing. God's mercy is what saved some of mankind from completely perishing. So, we could ask an important question here, was God obligated to save everyone? No. Well, was God obligated to give everyone a chance to become saved? No. What obligation did God have towards mankind to keep them from perishing? None. This is why when we consider this, we can see that salvation, even if it's only for a few (by comparison), it completely an undesserved mercy by God.

So, when we read of God hatred for sinners, we can see that it means that he has left them in their sins to pay for their own sins by their own death. This is God's perfect justice to do so. And God's love towards his elect was to forgive their sins and give them eternal life, but in order to do this, he had to take their place because God is subject to his own law.

I hope this helps.